BUOYANCY

[rasselasss]

I make no pretence to have an in depth knowledge(pun intended) of this subject,....on the sketch,two sealed bullet shape airtight buoys,connected by cable to fixed on the seabed or the floor of a tank, simple pulleys to allow up/down movement(one up ,one down etc.)i know it will not work......but,with modern electronics/switches/solonoids etc.deflation or inflation(flooding with ballast or other ideas) i would reckon such a thing possible ,Daan and others who have a better knowledge would understand(better than me)displacement/ the deeper the depth and the problems associated within..........with imagination and a knowledge,would it assist the "avalanche"mechanism shown on another blog, underwater an assistance on the upward side(ascending).....just thoughts .

[rasselasss]

Should have added ..the free running cable between the pulleys could with mechs. produce electricty but would there be surplus enough to make it a viable proposition...even a small up /down motion would suffice if it was perpetual....as stated its just a thought for those members that have this knowledge.(which i don't possess.)

[jim_mich]

I've looked at and calculated all sorts of bouncy schemes, and they all (except for one) have the same basic problem. To create buoyancy you need to expand a chamber and thus displace or push out water. And this needs to be done down at the bottom. And this takes energy. And the energy that it takes is exactly the amount of energy that you can derive by the buoys as they rise to the surface. At the bottom you must add only enough compressed air as will exactly fill the buoy after it has risen to the surface, else any extra is wasted energy. Thus the air in the buoys will expand as they rise and expel water all during their rise.

Looking at it from a different angle, you must push water out of the buoy at the bottom and that expelled water lifts the water level of the tank, which in effect moves water out of the buoy and up to the top of the tank. Then as the buoy rises the water above the bouy falls down to below the buoy, which is the cause of the buoy gaining force and energy as it rises. But as stated, that falling water must be caused to rise again when the buoy expands and thus pushes/displaces water from the depth up to the top of the tank.

[Bill_Mothershead]

Some people are really into buoyancy.
Me...not so much.

Anyway, read this on PES a few days back at:
http://pesn.com/2012/05/24/9602098_Zydr ... overunity/

It includes an embedded video that can also be seen at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSy_33t8 ... r_embedded

Strange video doesn't have much action or explanation
but I do marvel at how much money and effort went into
building this thing (whatever it is and whatever it is doing!?)

Main story text says he has "a provisional patent".
Not sure what than means.

Two other videos mentioned in the text are:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkxrLzcp0Z8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JUj42h6j7Y

There is a URL listed on the video:
http://www.overunity.com/10596/hydro-di ... ty-system/

Lots of text there. Some more URLs, etc.

Sort of hate to drive traffic away from besserwheel.com but
maybe this is for the best since all this buoyancy stuff
seems to be just a tad off topic anyway.

Good luck on your hydraulics.

[daanopperman]

rasselasss ,
The only way to make it move will be like jim_mich explained , to place the floats in two different tanks and change the levels very quick .
Similar plant for generating power is already at work in the sea , tethered to the ocean floor or the Sea Snake , using the waves as prime mover . The drawing following was one of my earlier ideas of how a ppm would work . It also uses buoyancy . The pipe in the bottom of the tank would span the length of 3 floats to keep the water inside the tank .
A very informative artical can be seen at wikipedia " injector " where water in a steam train tender was fed to the boiler while under pressure . Remember that the water in the tender is not under pressure , but the boiler is , and only the steam from the boiler is used , not a pump .

[murilo]

That 'junction' between 'wet' and 'dry' is the point.

For long time I'm thinking of buoys and up to now the best I got that would deserve a model is this:

- same elliptic set with falling and rising completely submerged.

- at rise a minimum economic volume of air is inflated to bottom exactly at the turn.

- to be checked: the result depending upon energy expended in compressor, size of floating bodies and group final acceleration...

- IF the water set is done as a 'U' the pumped air will also 'create' an interesting loss of pressure in column weight.

Best!
M

[JuBragg]

Hi Bill_Mothershead,
thanks for the links, it shows the principle that I have been working on these last few months, see my posts on ' Spiteri' thread.

I see the naysayers on the video comments do not understand the importance of this principle, that the capacity of a small volume of air at the same pressure can be made to take the place of a large cylynder of air (if it is moving something of neutral bouyancy) and therefore the problem of rebalancing a machine is overcome.

I will keep progress updates on the Spiteri thread, at the moment I am nearly ready to test but having problems with the bellows leaking and will have to redesign their sealing as a leak now means half a day unglueing to find the fault.

[rasselasss]

The excellent explanation by Jim Mich in terms without formula gives me and i'm sure others an easier understanding of the problem,and i thank you all for the links and time and trouble to explain your interests with great detail.....i'm particulary interested in Dann's project of a separate vessel emptying/filling to give upward movement(flotation)repetively,which would suggest to me,similiar to the movement of the ballcock movement in a watertank. and to Murilo's thoughts on his design ....and the merit of the simplicity ,which would truthfully would never be to the front of my thoughts.....Please bear with me,we have a saying over here"ask a man who knows"........the deeper the water(density)i believe, salt water denser...is there a uniform depth in measurement that the weight of a mass gets lighter the deeper the depth?this is really curiousity with me,and if such a thing could be replicated easily would we have use for it, the dead sea for instance the density as an example......Your thoughts and explanations are to me and i am sure others are really appreciated

[rasselasss]

I know some here will be thinking,what has this to do with "Bessler's Wheel"....in a lot of my designs and others i have noticed "lost" actions and as Jim Mich and others know a force down will give a push back in buoyancy so... if this action is lost anyway, we can retrieve and use, if our ingenuity permits this action in our designs as a vessel or otherwise it could give a pulse,tip, or whatever name you care to call it,these are just thoughts but its good to talk and share knowledge which could give some of us a different solution to a problem...Good Luck

[daanopperman]

rasselasss ,
I am not currently or in future with this project , it was a thought before time . Here is another " thought " , at the same time . JB said , " some think that by placing the weight on one side closer to the axel the thing will surely revolve " , I have gone away from that idea , and I know now that you have to lift the weight up at some point ( best at six ) for the wheel to turn , how he lifted is just not on the menu .
The drawing is of a solid steel wheel bathing in a tank of mercury with a slot into its side to receive half of the wheel on a shaft fixed to the outside of the tank with 2 plumber blocks . Half the wheel will want to float in the mercury while the outside half of the wheel will be under gravitational force , and make the 3 ton wheel do a lot of goodies . Needless to say , I never built the wheel , although I almost asked the then President to buy up all the mercury in the world .

[rasselasss]

Daan,thats a very clever and i would say a workable idea,as you said the wealth to persue it is another thing ...Thanks.

[jim_mich]

I suggest a Google image search for "Perpetual Motion" buoyancy. You will see many PM ideas similar to this.

PS. Hope you have high speed internet since there are lots of images.

[Jim Williams]

The enclosed patent is on a "buoyancy demonstrating apparatus" and demostrates exactly what buoyancy can do to rotate a wheel... nothing.

www.google.com/patents/US3412482

[preoccupied]

Would an avalanche drive work if it were a buoyancy device? It would go back wards.

[Tarsier79]

JuBragg

Spiteri's device "works" due to separating the pressure of the water inside and outside the device. S's incorrect assumption is that the pressure can't act through a flexible membrane (the bellows). Also, his maths do not match the logical addition of pressures, weights, and lack of weight (buoyancy). PM me if you want further info.

Cheers