Mayday! Mayday!!!

[raj]

Dear Forum Members,

I beg to point out that I am, in no way, attempting to build a working model of my gravity wheel concept.
This is far beyond me.

What I am attempting to build is a CONCEPT TESTING model. Just to see if it gives any sign that it will work. I can only build it in an amateurish way.

With that said, please find below, a picture of the completed ' Drum wheel', showing the inner rim wheels, inside and between which the axle of the inner wheel will be placed to roll at twice the rpm of the drum wheel.

What do you think of this drum wheel?
Does it look alright for a test?

Raj

[path_finder]

Dear raj,

You are on the right way.
If you observe carefully the balls inside a rotating bearing, you can say their centers are located on a circle rotating at a speed equal to the half summary of the both rings.
In addition this effect is absolutely independent from the size of the balls.
So far why do not use the same principle for obtaining our famous 'double speed disk.

The drawing below shows the suggested way.
The half left side represents a classic bearing. The outer cage is in red, the balls are in blue, and the inner ring is in yellow.
If the outer ring is grounded, the centers of the balls will rotate at a X speed, but the inner ring (in yellow) will rotate at 2X speed.
Now look at the right side: the balls have been replaced by a sector (in green) where TWO sets of rollers have been included.
The effect is the same like before: you get a sector rotating at a X speed, and the inner ring still rotates at 2X.

You don't see the benefit? Here is your speed doubler mechanism (see my signature).
This is exactly what the trilobed disk of Sabu is doing.

[raj]

Dear Path_Finder,

I have always said that your simulations and 2 to 1 rpm achieving models of my original gravity wheel concept look almost perfect.

Oh, how I wish, I had the means and expertise to have a go at building a model of my original gravity wheel concept.
I have tried, but it's too complicated build for me, needing some good engineering facilities.

So I have modified slightly my original concept, just to make it easier for me to do some concept testing.

I maintain that my original gravity wheel concept looks much better than the one I am trying to build right now.

Raj

[raj]

Well! friends.

I have now put my gravity (drum) wheel on stands, where it can now be rotated.

See picture below.

Raj

[raj]

And here is the smaller inner wheel with just an axle and four radial spokes at at 90 degrees interval. (In the form of a cross (bar)).

Remember that the diameter of this smaller wheel axle must be half of that of the inner rim of the drum wheel so as to get the 2:1 rpm ratio of the drum wheel and the inner smaller wheel.

Raj

[raj]

And Now!

My gravity wheel (Concept Testing) building attempt is almost complete.

All I need, now, is to hang 8 identical weights on strings inside the drum wheel.
And See if anything happens.

Utterly unlikely!!!

No one has yet seen the apple rise to the tree.

Raj

[raj]

To all those who follows this thread!
Here is a FUN quiz for you:

Below is a drawing of the starting positions of the 8 weights I shall be hanging inside my gravity wheel ( Concept Testing) model next.

1. Will the gravity wheel rotate a bit or not at all?
2. If your answer to (1) is yes, will it rotate CW or CCW?
3. At what position, will the gravity wheel keel? (Stop?)

Answers most welcomed.

We shall find out the answer, when I complete the concept testing.

This is all fun, and a learning process for me.
Raj

[raj]

My apology!

There is a mistake in my drawing above.

Maybe some of you have already seen the mistake.

The string from the 5 o'clock position on the outer rim of the drum wheel should connect to weight number 2.

Have fun with my quiz game.

Hopefully, my test will give the right answer,

Raj

[path_finder]

Dear raj,
Take care!...
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/files ... wrong1.png

[raj]

Dear Path_Finder,

Thanks for the warning.

But there's no denying, the right answer will be one of the three questions set:
1. the gravity wheel will not budge an iota.
2. the gravity wheel will try to rotate either cw or ccw a bit.
3. the gravity wheel will keel (stop) at some point.

Answer number 3 is the most important answer for me in this test.
The wheel will stop. But is there initial net torque and for how long?
This answer will help me proceed further with my gravity wheel design or throw it in the thrash bin.

It is six months since I opened this thread with the very one and only help question set to forum members:
HOW TO
Calculate Torque on my gravity wheel concept, I presented then???

The common advice I got, was a resounding : A build is your answer.
I followed the advice, within my means.
ONLY because, I have not got my answer yet.

Raj

[Tarsier79]

It is six months since I opened this thread with the very one and only help question set to forum members:
HOW TO
Calculate Torque on my gravity wheel concept, I presented then???

Raj,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque

Hopefully this is the wheel you are talking about: http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 7995#97995

Here is 1 of 2 methods I know to calculate static torque in your original wheel. To find its "Keel" point, you could set it up in a spreadsheet

Step 1. a. Calculate the horizontal ratio one weight hangs between its two points in percent. (If a weight hangs directly below 1 point=100%, and 0%. Half way 50% and 50% etc.)

  b. Multiply the weight x % to give you the distribution of weight applied to the two wheels.(Or alternatively convert to decimal.) From your calculations from here, it will be like there are two smaller weights applied, 1 to the inner, and another to the outer. This will be your apparent weight

Step 2. a. Calculate the horizontal distance of each of the string connection points to the wheels axis. (Gravitys direction of force is downwards, so a weight applies torque to a wheel/lever depending on its horizontal distance from the axis.)

  b. Multiply your connection distance only on the inner wheel x 2. (Or you could alternatively divide the outer by 2. Your inner wheel is geared to move 2x the speed of the outer, so the weight will apply 2x what it would to the outer at the same degrees. This will be your leverage.

Step 3. Assuming your wheel turns CW, make all connection points on the RHS +, and any connection points on the LHS are -. So you have apparent weight x leverage for the outer, and apparent weight x inner leverage x 2( x2 done in step 2b) for the inner wheel. Repeat this for every weight on your wheel, and add all the numbers. So you will be adding 16 numbers for 8 weights.

This will give you a + or - torque figure, not an actual torque, as the torque isn't just doubled for the inner, or just halved for the outer, but will be a compromise between the two, and the extra calculation is unnecessary to give you the answer you want.

Good luck.


(ADD edited to make more readable)

[raj]

Tarsier79!
THANK YOU.

Thank you for giving me a 'Torque calculation method' in plain layman's language.

I have tried checking on 'Torque' on the internet including wikipaedia. They seem so academic in their explanation.

Well, I just calculated the torques on my quiz-set drawing above.
Much to my surprise, I am getting a net CW torque of 50 % +
I must have miscalculated.
I'll have to do it again to check the answer.

Raj

[Tarsier79]

Raj,

eg. 1kg at 50% at 30cm on the RHS of the inner wheel = .5kg x 30cm x2= 30, do this for all weights, then add together, it shouldn't give you a %, but rather a number that is either + or -. It could be probable, depending on what values you use for size and weight that you got a torque figure of 50.

It would not be surprising if you got a + or - torque figure, as the position drawn will most likely not be its keel position. When it reaches keel, the number you get out will be 0 or very close to it.

If you repost a drawing with sizes and weight values I could do the calcs on a single position to confirm your calculations if you wish.

[raj]

Hi Folks!

I just hanged the 8 weights on my gravity wheel concept testing build, and the first flaw (faulty design) smacked me on full face.

Without any initial push or pull given to the wheel, it very slowly turned clockwise. That was a very encouraging sign.
Then! Ooops it stop turning after 20+ degrees turn.

It took me a while to find out why it stop so quickly. I recheck my drawings. And presto, the faulty design was blatantly in front of me.

If you look at my drawing below, you will find weight number 8 in a locked position because of the smaller wheel axle will prevent it to move any further and reset on the right side of the centre axle.

I had known this problem would happen, but somehow, in my enthusiasm to build a concept testing prototype, I had just overlooked this problem.

I would have to redesign the smaller wheel axle, and try the testing again later.

Hello Tarsier79.
Thank you again.
I would be grateful to you if you could do the calculation for me.

Here are the dimensions of my concept testing gravity wheel:
1. Diameter of Drum Wheel=80 cms
2. Diameter of inner rim of drum wheel=10 cms
3. Diameter of axle of smaller wheel=5 cms
4. Length of spokes of smaller wheel= 20 cms from centre of axle.
5. Length of longer strings connected to outer rim of drum wheel=9.5 cms
6. Length of shorter strings connected to end of spokes=3 coms
7. mass of one weight= one unit(kg?)

I look forward to your calculation result based on the drawing below.

Raj

[Tarsier79]

Sorry Raj.

I just noticed this method will not work for weights like "8" and "5". It will just require some additional maths. Also, perhaps you could recalculate the length of the strings, that would be great.

Add: I have attached calcs for the free hanging weights below.