What should someone do with a solution?

[Dwylbtzle]

jimmich
let me rephrase that
i never said he didn't use those particular words
i said he didn't claim to have invented a perpetual motion machine
meaning:
he never claimed to have created anything that is defined
by science
as a perpetual motion machine under the laws of thermodynamics
or conservation of energy
because he never claimed it didn't utilize an outside force
that's what i meant
so my statement stands

if he used the words "perpetual motion"
that's because it moves perpetually
and therefore that's a perfectly accurate description for his day
and he had every right to use that phrase
and he may not have even known of the scientific definition of those words in the way i was using them
which is the official way it's meant when the laws of physics say THAT is impossible

IF he did it in the manner of what i have invented (and i never said i knew what he did)
then he was tapping gravity

i always said "IF"

[Dwylbtzle]

jimmich
do you or anyone else have any comments on the heart
the core
the kernel
the meat and bones
the macro-issue of my posts
you know--the important non-petty stuff
(specifically the thing about a balloon tapping gravity)
other than just a failed attempt at a "GOTCHA!" on a semantic technicality?

just curious

if not, fine

[Jim Williams]

It sounds to me you have something like a mechanical clock; but instead weights pulling down, it has balloons pulling up; to power the mechanism. Eventually the weights have to be raised back up or the balloons lowered.

[Dwylbtzle]

thank you for the pertinant question, sirrah!
(FINally)

no not at all
neither of my ideas uses balloons
i just used the example of a balloon or a boat to illustrate that they do indeed tap gravity

**************

also
jimmich

i quite clearly remember reading where bessler stated that his wheel
worked by something that kept it from finding an equilibrium

so that denotes gravity within the very definition of the word equilibrium

whether he ever used the word gravity or not
but merely said it worked because of the action or motion of it's parts
is irrelevant
of course it worked by the action or motion of its parts

all i know is even if he didn't know what gravity was
and he used something akin to what i'm using

it tapped gravity

just like a balloon or a boat taps gravity

in fact
no matter what he used
even if the whole thing was a hoax
my machines tap gravity

cripes even a stream-powered waterwheel mill taps gravity

an "air-lift" that treasure hunting (or salvage) divers use to lift sand and
things from the bottom of the ocean taps gravity

a sluice box taps gravity

a catapult taps gravity

ALL these things tap gravity
no mater how many people scream that gravity is a conservative force
i've just found another way to tap gravity
and it's so incredibly simple
i can't even believe it hasn't already been discovered
(thus my worries about on-going suppression)
and i'm pretty sure bessler probably discovered it too

[Jim Williams]

I realise this is probably silly to point out, but waterwheels don't tap gravity; they tap heat generated by the sun. I'll assume I don't need explain.

[Dwylbtzle]

no
they tap the gravity that is forcing the water down the hill

the heat from the sun lifts the water back up
yes
but my idea doesn't need to lift anything back up

it just needs gravity to always be pulling down
which it always does

but thanks again for the pertinent response
now we're getting somewhere

[Dwylbtzle]

if we keep this non bickering up
and actually keep discussing gravity wheels
(crazy, i know)
we may just end up endangering yer life
from illuminatai assassins

[Dwylbtzle]

a water wheel just needs water continually flowing down
it doesn't bother itself with HOW the water gets back up

yes
the water has to be brought back up
in THAT case
but in my case
i have found something that uses gravity flowing down constantly
just as the water is flowing down constantly

and gravity does that thru space-time distortion
caused by mass
so nothing has to go back to replenish it
as long as the mass stays under it
yer getting very close

[Jim Williams]

As it was explained to me; gravity only goes in one direction. Eventually masses attracted to each other run out of room. It then takes the same energy to remove them from each other as they exhibited in their attraction. I've found no exception so far.

[Dwylbtzle]

well, sir that is exactly correct

i don't have to seperate any masses with this

i'm not pulling anything apart

[Jim Williams]

Einstein has a saying about; the reason time exists is to prevent everything from happening all at once. To which someone on this board suggested a rejoinder of; and the reason space exists is to prevent everything from happening to him.

I don't know. It just sounds like your space is going to get a little crowded.

[Dwylbtzle]

i'm going to have to ask you:
if you see it
do not blurt it out

yer close

hint
gravity is the weakest force in the universe
because it isn't a force
an object goes towards any thing with mass because time is slowed down by any mass
and so more of that object's future lies in that direction and more of its past lies in the opposite direction

and it only works because there is ABSOLUTELY no force stopping it
well IF there is no force stopping it...

if there is, then that stops it

but barring any thing else stopping it
all it knows is space is warped for it to go that direction

this that i have just described will never need anything being brought back
to the other side to force it back down some more
or to keep the force going that is being generated
there is no gravity beam
no stream of gravitrons
no gravity frequency
no wavelength of gravity power

that's why the force of gravity is not a force
it's a time warp

and that's ALL the time
without surcease

that's why one can never go back in time
only foreward in time

because gravity only pulls in one direction

and time and space and mass and gravity are all relative to each other
and dependant upon each other and melded with each other
intertwined
weaved
into a sort of thing that can be imagined as a kinda fabric

[Jim Williams]

I keep forgetting. No, I mean I really can't remember; but does gravity travel at the speed of light?

Other than that I'm somewhat envious of patent examiners right now who could say; that all sounds well and good, but do you have a working model? I don't rejected what you are saying, but neither can I see it.

[Dwylbtzle]

no no no
yer thinking all wrong about it
gravity doesn't travel at all
it can't because it isn't a thing

it doesn't travel to reach out to anything
yer either in the gravity field or you aren't

it isn't affected by time
IT effects time
you had that exactly backwards

and as i said
i will not tell you
or anyone else
whether i have a model or not
for the specific reasons stated


gotta go to bed
but i would love to continue this discussion with you
or anyone else who cares to discuss gravity tapping machines
tomorrow
thanks
yer a brash of threshed air

[Dwylbtzle]

gravity doesn't travel at the speed of light
gravity slows down and bends light
it can even stop light
in a black hole
just as it can stop time and crush matter to less than nothingness

way less
because it can utterly swallow space itself

and if there is no space
there can't even be "nothing" in it