What should someone do with a solution?

[Jim Williams]

First speed of gravity measurement revealed
20:30 07 January 2003 by Hazel Muir


The speed of gravity has been measured for the first time. The landmark experiment shows that it travels at the speed of light, meaning that Einstein's general theory of relativity has passed another test with flying colours.

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Berkeley Lab Physicist Challenges Speed of Gravity Claim


BERKELEY, CA � Albert Einstein may have been right that gravity travels at the same speed as light but, contrary to a claim made earlier this year, the theory has not yet been proven. A scientist at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) says the announcement by two scientists, widely reported this past January, about the speed of gravity was wrong.

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What is the Speed of Gravity?

...So, in theory, we know that the speed of gravity should be the same as the speed of light. But the Sun’s force of gravity out here, by us, is far too weak to measure this effect. In fact, it gets really hard to measure, because if something moves at a constant velocity in a constant gravitational field, there’s no observable affect at all. What we’d want, ideally, is a system that has an object moving with a changing velocity through a changing gravitational field. What would that take?

Something intense, like two neutron stars orbiting each other extremely close together! Occasionally, we get very lucky, and a neutron star emits very regular blips of light, pulsing with incredible precision: this makes it a pulsar! If one of these neutron stars is a pulsar aimed at us, we can test whether gravity moves at the speed of light or not!

Incredibly enough, we’ve discovered multiple independent binary pulsars with this exact configuration!

Not only is the gravitational source (star #1) moving, but the other object (star #2) is changing its velocity, as it changes its direction in orbit around the gravitational source! Remarkably, this effect causes the orbit to ever-so-slowly decay, which leads to time changes in the pulses!

The predictions from Einstein’s theory of gravity are incredibly sensitive to the speed of light, so much so that even from the first binary pulsar system, PSR 1913+16 (or the Hulse-Taylor binary), we have constrained the speed of gravity to be equal to the speed of light with an error of less than 1%!

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The Speed Of Gravity – Why Einstein Was Wrong


May 14, 2010
By michaelsuede



Physicist Tom Van Flandern lays down the law… Newton’s law

The Speed of Gravity What the Experiments Say

Van Flandern T. ,Physics Letters A, Vol. 250:1-11 (1998)

Abstract.


Standard experimental techniques exist to determine the propagation speed of forces. When we apply these techniques to gravity, they all yield propagation speeds too great to measure, substantially faster than lightspeed...

[Dwylbtzle]

if even light can be slowed down--like when it passes through water
and if a black hole can actually even STOP light and time
and crush matter and swallow space itself
and if everything is relative...

i think that whatever means they are using to attempt to measure
gravity's "speed" is also relative to the medium they are dealing with

(meaning the whole of the fabric of space/time, energy, light and matter)

in other words: whatever they are measuring
or whatever they are using to try and detect gravity at some distance...
IT is affected by time

but the gravity doesn't have to REACH out and go anywhere

it's always just sitting there
being generated by mass

and time is running slower (a tiny tiny bit)
as anything gets closer to it
that's why something is drawn to it
because there is more "future" in that direction
so it HAS to go that way
unless some force stops it
so one possibly COULD be reading something that seems to indicate some
time passage before you can detect any effect

therefore you could think gravity took some "time" to "reach" there

and yeah--THAT effect probably plays out at what would be the same time
light would take to get there

that actually seems intuitively correct to me

it feels right

so if this effect is something one wants to word as gravity "traveling"...
IF you define it all THAT way
then i guess you COULD say gravity "travels" at the speed of light
i would never feel much inclined to bother to give anyone a red ass for
trying to describe it all with those words, i guess
it wouldn't technically be correct if you look at it another way
but, shit
after all the damn cake and watemelon...us feeble monkeys gotta communicate SOMEhow

the only problem that might generate is that it causes people to think
in the wrong way about things: that gravity is some substance or force or BEAM or stream or wavelength--and it isn't
or that there is some gravitron particle at play here
but there isn't
*********

also--to jimmich: (continuing in regards to yer statement that bessler never used the word "gravity" to describe how his machine worked):

i also seem to remember reading somewhere that bessler said his wheel worked because the weights on one side of the wheel were always causing that side of the wheel to be "heavy"--while, at the same time, the other side of the wheel was always being kept "nice and light--like it should be"

yeah
ok
you win
he didn't use the word "gravity" in there
i guess you sure told ME
hehehe
:)
just jerkin' yer chain, buddy
forgive me

[Dwylbtzle]

never mind--figured it out
this post is a DP
a displaced person
:)

[Jim Williams]

I'd suggest we've gone off-topic anyway.

If I had a solution, I'd do the same as I would always do. Build a working model and apply for a patent.

Not only would it be news; it would be published, for all to see how it works.

[Dwylbtzle]

well
maybe
but the the topic finally convinced me that a person probably wouldn't
want to patent it OR give it away
so i don't know WHAT one would do with the damn thing

look at it, guess

so i'm glad to discuss gravity with you when you ask about it

[Dwylbtzle]

I'd suggest we've gone off-topic anyway.

If I had a solution, I'd do the same as I would always do. Build a working model and apply for a patent.

Not only would it be news; it would be published, for all to see how it works.

UNLess they stop it
which i believe they would
or probably would
or MIGHT

back to square one again
:{/

[Dwylbtzle]

maybe one could just travel around to poor rural areas and have units made of impervium that you attach to destutute people's huts
and they could probably never open it
unless they were real strong and had titanium crobars
which they woudn't be able to afford
so you would never have given it away
or revealed it to anyone
and no law would ever have been broken

[Jim Williams]

I couldn't just look at it. Either my social conscience or my greed would win.

[Dwylbtzle]

maybe you could take it to an energy company
and sell it to them
with some airtight clause in the contract that they could never look inside
they just had to help you build them
and sell the electricity at vastly lower rates

if they ever looked inside--then the illuminatai blowback
or legal fees--(which would probably be the worst of it)
would be on them

[Jim Williams]

I'd rather have everyone have the option of knowing how it works. A patent would provide that.

I doubt a secrecy order; being there would first need be proof a secrecy order was needed and by then it would be too late for congress to pass such a law. Until it did, it would be everywhere.

[Dwylbtzle]

but, of course, unless you built them all yerself
there would have to be some workforce that would be able to see how it works
and good luck keeping more than one person's mouth shut

...hell
even ONE person
hehehe

most of the time i read someone's ideas of how a gravity wheel would work
it's so complicated, it gives me a headache

but there was ONE guy in here who said his idea only used eight moving pats
and that as soon as even a child looked at it for one second
that child would be able to see how it works
so i think THAT guy might have seen what i see

so yeah
good luck manufacturing it without some worker figuring it out
hell...ALL the workers

of course i WOULD be using child labor to make more money
because i'm really an evil illuminatai agent
just sent here to catch anyone who sees it
and turn him in to "the man"
for the appropriate torture before being granted the sweet release of death

[Dwylbtzle]

I'd rather have everyone have the option of knowing how it works. A patent would provide that. I doubt a secrecy order; being there would first need be proof a secrecy order was needed and by then it would be too late.

no--as i understand it from the wording of the law
the patent office would narc on one before approving the patent
or any publishing of the details

and if you go ahead and blab after that
yer busted

then shanked in jail by one of the aryan nation guys
who are all, by the way, also in the illuminatai, i hear

[Jim Williams]

I don't see why someone couldn't publish over the internet and apply for a patent at the same time. If memory serves, this has already been suggested. Then the secrecy order, when issued, would raise the question as to what had to be kept secret.

..........................................................................

Section 181. Secrecy of certain inventions and withholding of patent

Whenever publication or disclosure by the publication of an application or by the grant of a patent on an invention in which the Government has a property interest might, in the opinion of the head of the interested Government agency, be detrimental to the national security, the Commissioner of Patents upon being so notified shall order that the invention be kept secret and shall withhold the publication of the application or the grant of a patent therefor under the conditions set forth hereinafter.

Whenever the publication or disclosure of an invention by the publication of an application or by the granting of a patent, in which the Government does not have a property interest, might, in the opinion of the Commissioner of Patents, be detrimental to the national security, he shall make the application for patent in which such invention is disclosed available for inspection to the Atomic Energy Commission, the Secretary of Defense, and the chief officer of any other department or agency of the Government designated by the President as a defense agency of the United States.

Each individual to whom the application is disclosed shall sign a dated acknowledgment thereof, which acknowledgment shall be entered in the file of the application. If, in the opinion of the Atomic Energy Commission, the Secretary of a Defense Department, or the chief officer of another department or agency so designated, the publication or disclosure of the invention by the publication of an application or by the granting of a patent therefor would be detrimental to the national security, the Atomic Energy Commission, the Secretary of a Defense Department, or such other chief officer shall notify the Commissioner of Patents and the Commissioner of Patents shall order that the invention be kept secret and shall withhold the publication of the application or the grant of a patent for such period as the national interest requires, and notify the applicant thereof. Upon proper showing by the head of the department or agency who caused the secrecy order to be issued that the examination of the application might jeopardize the national interest, the Commissioner of Patents shall thereupon maintain the application in a sealed condition and notify the applicant thereof. The owner of an application which has been placed under a secrecy order shall have a right to appeal from the order to the Secretary of Commerce under rules prescribed by him.

An invention shall not be ordered kept secret and the publication of the application or the grant of a patent withheld for a period of more than one year. The Commissioner of Patents shall renew the order at the end thereof, or at the end of any renewal period, for additional periods of one year upon notification by the head of the department or the chief officer of the agency who caused the order to be issued that an affirmative determination has been made that the national interest continues so to require. An order in effect, or issued, during a time when the United States is at war, shall remain in effect for the duration of hostilities and one year following cessation of hostilities. An order in effect, or issued, during a national emergency declared by the President shall remain in effect for the duration of the national emergency and six months thereafter. The Commissioner of Patents may rescind any order upon notification by the heads of the departments and the chief officers of the agencies who caused the order to be issued that the publication or disclosure of the invention is no longer deemed detrimental to the national security.

[Dwylbtzle]

yeah
that idea was jimmich's thing he called "THE PLAN""
apply for the patent one day
and then immediately blab it hither and yon through the internet web
cloud the very next day

which i think might be a cool idea
as far as MAYBE stopping them from prosecuting you
but then they would easily be able to just petulantly deny you the patent
and then exact some retribution

and i don't even think i could be sure that would save you from legal prosecution
but i don't know for sure

so you might as well just blab it
without the patent attempt, it seems to me

[Dwylbtzle]

also--remember
the USA is now
and will be forever in the forseeable future
"at war"

because of iraq and afghanistan and because of world terrorism
they've pretty much got THAT in the bag till Jesus comes back

(for Peter the apostle's sake)

war
war
war
we're at war--so the government can do anything they frippin WANT
even shoot yer fanny with a drone

obama just has to put you on his list

and you can't trust a nobel PEACE prize winner like that
who received his prize "on credit"

and romney will tie you to the top of his car and sick his dog on you
ne doubt