ok here's what i'm saying--build THIS (hehe) this has the required "cheat"(but note: this doesn't work)

[Dwylbtzle]

edit!--
OMG
the hard part HAS been invented!
http://u2.lege.net/John_Keely/keelynet. ... 002641.htm
so this idea DOES work!
this first idea, coming up, was just a throw away to lead into the next two in this thread
and then fletcher found this kid who made a working true gravity engine
and it uses what could be and IS a frictionless watertight sealant

********************************************



ok--this one's free because you'd have to invent part of it
the hard part
hehe
buy me a VW van if you do invent the hard part

IF you could have a disc on an axle/bearing (wartever) like a disc brake disc
probably made of dense heavy wood (would be best)--but any material would work
(i think you want the disc to end up being pretty solid and substantial so it could do "work"
but hell, maybe styrofoam would be the best i dunno--yude have to test different things if you ever could make this--but i don't even think it can be done until you invent "the hard part" so kinda moot at this instant)
and if you could somehow insert most of one side of the disc thru a slit in the side of a box
so that the bearing it's spinning on would still be outside the box
and fill the box up with water
the disc would spin forever as long as you guys out there are gonna be able to invent the science fiction frikkin frictionless sealant that keeps the water from running out of the box where the disc inserts EVEN AS THE DISC IS SPINNING THRU THE SLIT
and i don't know what the hell that would be
so good luck
but this illustrates everything i need to demonstrate:
the one side of the disc would be getting buoyed up and the other side would be getting pulled down

that's all we're missing here: the super goop
no laws violated
the axle could be turning a generator
there are NO (internal to the wheel itself) tricky gizmos INSIDE the wheel AT ALL tricking it INTERNALLY to spin (which i say is impossible without a "CHEAT", also, on the outside, that is using something other than just straight gravity pulling generally down on the wheel)
the "CHEAT" is EXTERNAL--it's (in this case) the box with the magic, as yet uninvented, (as far as i know), KY jelly, which keeps the water from running out thru the slit
utilizing buoyancy
but only on one side

i maintain you can't make a gravity wheel work from just gravity alone pushing down on the wheel with some gizmo inside
like some ramp i heard about someone patenting that supposedly keeps the weights on one side (of a wheel with spokes) more INSIDE, CLOSER TO THE CENTER as the ones on the spokes on the other side slide out to the OUTSIDE RIM more
because, as the wheel goes around, those weights COULD be pushed to the inside but they WON'T be, because they have to rise up at a sharper angle
and that requires more energy--so the wheel achieves its equilibrium and stops dead
that damned conservation of energy again

i think besslers wheel just had an external (to the actual wheel itself
but still inside the cloaking box)
CHEAT
maybe using buoyancy, somehow
but i think not
i think it was something else--and i certainly know another one that would work
and it doesn't use buoyancy
so no slit box

cheat or helper or booster or whatever
i say cheat simply because it's using an outside conventional well know non damn magical energy
and it's always kept hidden
so it looks like a pure gravity wheel
and if you used buoyancy it still would be all gravity in the long run
but two forms of it
two different utilizations of it
because buoyancy is caused by gravity pushing down on the water
and the water pushes up on anything submerged
(every action has an equal and opposite reaction
sometimes them pesky laws help you rather than just always busting you)
if it's less dense than water the submerged object will float
if it's denser than water it won't float--but it will still weigh less

the opposite of gravity is levity

[Dwylbtzle]

all bessler's "cheat" would have to do is supply the energy
that EXTRA little bit of energy we were talking about
that it would take to lift the weights up at a higher, sharper angle, as they came around one side of the wheel
which would keep them closer to the inside (towards the center)
on THAT side

this could possibly be some facilty of buoyancy somewhere within the system
but i don't know how one would do THAT
(what all it would entail) but whatever gizmos it took would have to originate outside the wheel itself
or at least be applied to the wheel from the outside somehow
and i haven't figured out how he woulda done that
and i don't know that that's what his cheat used

i know of another simple SIMPLE way

and, either way, what you end up with
if yer cloaking box can't be seen thru
is something that IS INDEED being POWERED by gravity
but it's not just using the gravity pushing down generally on the wheel

but it would seem/look like it is

and it wouldn't matter

now i would, myself, be only using this wheel to demonstrate the principle in the form of a toy

to really generate power in huge amounts
i wouldn't use a wheel
i'd be using a whole different set up
and it definately would use the principle of buoyancy
and, after all was said and done, it would be converting gravity pretty dang directly into electricity
well it would be spinning a coil inside a magnetic field
which is the definition of an electric generator
and it would require no fuel
and it would run until it wore out
or until the same people who raided tesla's lab and stole all his papers and stuff showed up

that DID happen to him ya know
ya knew that, right?

and if i told anyone i was running it
and had no protection:
was just some little guy in his garage with it
that WOULD happen
bank on it

also
this is what i call the BFD model
it would take a big frikkin deal to make it
in the sense that i personally couldn't whack it together over a weekend with a hammer and screwdriver and some duct tape

at the least it would take a nice machine shop
and the guy with the machine shop would have a work crew and assistants
and i get tired after i spend a whole day murdering more than seven or
eight people to keep them silent
and that's what it would take
so i have to do the jimmich plan
and apply to patent one day
and blab like crazy the very next day

or i have to take the working toy to a billionaire
who has the power and resources to fly with the whole thing

[jim_mich]

It's obvious that you have not walked the hallowed halls of Donald E. Simanek's Museum of Unworkable Devices where his buoy device #2 is exactly what you describe. The concept is older than I am, and someone once told me I'm older than dirt.


It's obvious that you like to chatter on and on, but such behavior is giving you a very bad reputation. You are like the friendly neighbor that drops by in the morning to chat and stays the whole day yakking on and on about everything and nothing. At first you are a little entertaining. But eventually you wear out your welcome and we just want to scream out, "Please go home!!" You are a reincarnation of Ken.

[murilo]

Jim,
you said almost everything I would like to!
To add:
he thinks that he's very interesting and amusing to all OR in some place someone, plenty of time, will love to read him - maybe his biographers - ... again, again and again! What an EGO!!! 8(
He's the proper Ken Berendt!

[Dwylbtzle]

JIM
I stated it wouldn't work
because the frictionless sealing method doesn't exist
i even put "build this HEHE" in the title-meaning you can't
it just illustrates that a gravity wheel needs an outside boost
and some application of buoyancy could be one
but thanks--maybe i wasn't clear enough so now i have added "this doesn't work" into the title

if you are saying THIS thread is too long-well i took as long as i needed to describe the concepts

i think you are seeing, in other threads, yes--lots of posts
some paragraphs long
my going thru lots of things, and writing a paragraph, each, to a group of people one person at a time
i realize in this era of dumbed down twittered social communication
that's unusual

oh and YES--all throughout: my stupid black humor
GUILTY AS CHARGED
gotta tone that down--yes--yer right

and having just got here
going thru lots of other threads
and answering each
so one day you might come here and see i've tagged the end of several
so you see my name down the index list
all in a row

now the kid who started fifty threads screaming he had an idea with 8 moving parts that a child could see and he wanted to sell it to someone in here
yeah
i wrote a frikkin BOOK to THAT kid
he scared the hell outta me
and he had disappeard but come back
(starting another thread of course)
i was kinda flippin out there, i'll have to admit
and i was trying to save his poor life
and had to go over gobs of stuff we'd all discussed in here
in the four threads OTHER people not me
had started on that exact subject
hey--at least i stopped him doing those thread titles
i ended that with him--that's over, now, for us, here

I could point out that you didn't offer any helpful comments on the content of IDEAS contained in my thread
just pointed out something i had made very obvious everyone already knew:
that the first "free" givaway idea doesn't work
and then just wrote a snotty remark about THAT
and then a bunch about me, personally
and you did that once before where you wrote the longest post i ever saw trying to prove a 'gotcha' you thought you'd caught me in
so i could say that was a waste of space too ya know
except yer probably write
100%--sure--i can see that--i'll probably have to cop to everything you said
so i won't say it--it'd be snotty
hehe
hey--one thing i ALSO repeated over and over is that yer
release plan was the best idea i saw on the subject
and i believe i said you'd put a hell of a lot of thought into it
and it would probably almost HAVE to be the one people should use

cMON man
trying to replace fossil fuels here
not play political popularity games
no scientist was ever the least bit eccentric at all?
my apologies for that, then

i'll work on it
ok?

still friends?

"can we talk?"
-joan rivers

*****************

Murilo

i wrote YOU that extra post in the buoyancy thread
because i thought i had (without meaning to)
hurt yer feelings when i said a buoy would be hard to make work
it appears i did
and i'm very very sorry

i went back and saw that and thought it had appeared dismissive to you and not respectful enough to the thought you put into it

i really apologize for that
in fact i'm VERY sorry i did that, ok
the way i made that joke about "using abuoy would be like using a bowie knife probably"
thats my stupid humor
takes a while to get the funny with me sometimes
and that wasn't even that funny of a joke--just kinda dumb
-went back and saw that and was gonna edit it right out
but that would just be an attempt to cover my own insensitive churlishness
wouldn't it?
and what if you'd already read it
so how does that help you?
and i don't like doing edits much except for punctuation
so it called for another post

thats another reason i will usually add some another post sometimes:
rather than go into a post and edit
and then, of course, sometimes another tack on a subject comes up
that wasn't in the post

so--yes--two posts before anyone answers the first one
looks bad yes
egotistical
yeah

i thought about it some more
and there's absolutely no reason a buoy couldn't be a perfectly good idea for all kindza applications of buoyancy, (i mean DUH, right?)
even a bessler wheel
and i just wasn't bothering to look at yer idea hard enough
and probably wasn't smart enough to see it quickly
and, as i had explained--i had already let my brain get prejudiced against buoy ideas
i can't apologize enough
forgive me

[Dwylbtzle]

oh
i also probably say "horse shit" and "goddam" in here too much
i'm gonna quit doing that 'cause kids might come in here...

AAAGHh!
%{/
(doh!)

[Fletcher]

It's obvious that you have not walked the hallowed halls of Donald E. Simanek's Museum of Unworkable Devices where his buoy device #2 is exactly what you describe. The concept is older than I am, and someone once told me I'm older than dirt.

Additional to jim_mich's steer.

http://u2.lege.net/John_Keely/keelynet. ... 002641.htm

Why won't it work Dwy ?

[Dwylbtzle]

i dunno
ask old dirt man
(hehehe)
i was thinking it just needed some magic goop
sounds like it may exist
well i HOPE it doesn't work
because i woulda then have just given it away, wouldn't i?
dang
hehe

this thread was meant to be how two things could be made that could tap gravity
one would use buoyancy--but not be a wheel
one would be a tiny toy wheel just to demonstrate that one could tap gravity--and it wouldn't use buoyancy

the example (that i was saying probably can't work)
was just a theoretical construct to show how IF a gravity wheel could work
it would have to have a cheat...
as far as pure classic PM gravity wheel ideas would go
(which usually rely on JUST the gravity (that is pulling down on the wheel--at all places equally) and gizmos internal to the wheel itself)

the minute i came in here i think several people assumed i believed a gravity wheel could turn JUST from gravity JUST PULLING DOWN
and gizmos internally
and more than one started insulting me
and calling me psychotic
or a liar
before i even expressed any such dang notion
or even them so much as saying HELLO to me

in fact if they'da waited five minutes before doing that
they woulda seen i agree with their assertions

ironic

then the complaint was that i seemed unwilling to explain anything

so here i did
and now i guess i'm a geek and have an annoying sense of humor
and talk too much
and a bad writing style
and i make posts over one sentence

and multiple posts
all sins

nothing not even one remark about the science

well
YOU were cool
thanks pal

[ovyyus]

Message just in via flying monkey:

illuminati stand down from alpha alert status STOP assassins demobilized STOP subject of no ongoing interest STOP focus retraining initiated STOP

[eccentrically1]

Another user ignored.

[Dwylbtzle]

yes sir!
ok
shit ovvyus
don't tell the sith lord on me
please?

i promise i'll dumb em down much harder next week

deal?

christ! i don't know what i was thinking

god!
and i was just about to kill the subject guy
and his family too
(and torture them of course)

good thing y'all stopped me

[murilo]

SCOOOOOOTT!!!
HELP!!!! O;

[Silvertiger]

It's obvious that you have not walked the hallowed halls of Donald E. Simanek's Museum of Unworkable Devices where his buoy device #2 is exactly what you describe. The concept is older than I am, and someone once told me I'm older than dirt.

Additional to jim_mich's steer.

http://u2.lege.net/John_Keely/keelynet. ... 002641.htm

Why won't it work Dwy ?

Sweet. :) That's a smart guy right there. Ferromagnetic oil, who would've thought?

[Dwylbtzle]

being celtic my faery friends tell me that those flying saucers you see aren't aliens
but them with their bitchen wheels
and they say they use ferrofluids bound molecularly with mercury
spun around the rim with intense magnetic fields
because spinning mass creates its own gravitational field
so i googled it
an sure enough

which is part of why a frisbie flies
and why gyroscopes don't fall off the string
and why a bicycle wheel lain flat on a scale weighs less the faster you spin it

get that (super dense, but magnetically attractable) liquid spinning fast enough and you can go up into space at four miles an hour
with just a little fan blowing down
if you wanted,
and then, i guess, once you cleared the atmosphere
a bottle rocket would keep you going even


so i guess the magic, frictionless, watertight, psychedelic KY jelly does exist

and the first example of a wheel, in this thread could be built

coo

[Silvertiger]

Interesting thought. If you put it right on top of the earth's axis, Coriolis would make it spin forever. :)