Apologia Poetica Translation

[Michael]

Hi Stewart,

We'll for my two cents it sounds like Bessler is stating an internal source of heat. Ie: summer is always inside. Since there were many types of, machines that didn't run on temprature difference ( I would gather most didn't) in his time, ie: water wheels, possibly windmills with frost covered snow, etc. this statement;

>"Does my machine also perform in the cold (when other machines are frozen)?" The answer lies behind the following: With my machine one can stay working pleasantly in Winter, as it whizzes and bangs. When other machines are nearly snowed up, mine runs along as new. If a hard frost creeps in there, it is Summer here, the weather shines.

makes it seem even more likely that he was stating his machine is thermally warm inside.


He also states, as I mentioned in another post, that the form of motion comes from the internal form of the mahine. So it would seem to me that he is stating that the source of heat is internally created, that it doesn't absorb from the ambient. I hate to beat this to death but I think some real research is needed on the idea of the tube (organ pipe?) being able to create heat from pressure.

Sincerely,

Michael

[Fletcher]

Perhaps ?...

The eleventh question I get asked is : "Does my machine operate in the cold (when other machines are frozen solid) ?" The answer is : My machine can continue to work in the cold. When other machines are nearly frozen to a stop, mine keeps on turning & operating unaffected. If there is a hard frost that freezes a machines parts together (externally) mine (which is covered in) will not be affected.

[Michael]

Hi,

Perhaps, but even a covered machine is susceptible to cold, if not wind, and Bessler's wheels didn't run very fast. Consider a car in winter, and all the safety precautions needed to insure it doesn't seize up.

Reg.

Mike

[Jonathan]

Ah, but you turn a car off and let it sit in the cold all night, not so with a pm.

[Michael]

Hi Jonathan,

>Ah, but you turn a car off and let it sit in the cold all night, not so with a pm.

I knew that was coming. Still a car is equipped with anti freeze and lubs, and runs a lot hotter. I don't think a slow moving wheel with 16th century technology is going to compare, regardless whether it is running or not. I guess a good test would be to take simple closed mechanical device and put it outside in the winter. Metal contracts, ice forms. I just don't think it would survive.

Also I've noticed when Bessler talks about the secret workings of his machine he starts to get flowery and poetic, and when he talks about the mundane aspects of his machine, how much power it can give, what it is good for, the basic structural aspects, and when he talks about the world outside his machine, he speaks normally. This statement seems to be at least half poetic;

> "Does my machine also perform in the cold (when other machines are frozen)?" The answer lies behind the following: With my machine one can stay working pleasantly in Winter, as it whizzes and bangs. When other machines are nearly snowed up, mine runs along as new. If a hard frost creeps in there, it is Summer here, the weather shines.

If it did keep running just from a little friction, why not just state it simply? He could have just used the first part, but then he goes and adds the last sentence in. Unecissary and otherwise extreme. Poetic and could be purposeful.

Reg.

Mike

[bluesgtr44]

It runs to the right and to the left;
One may wave to him only with fingers.

It will run in either direction, and only needs the wave of fingers to start it.

[MC]

I like this thread, because it’s a very important one, started by Stewart!

John Collins posted the original German text of the AP poem in this thread (page 2). As older members know it extended a little further than the English translation does, that we’re all accustomed with.

Dies sei an seinen Ort gestell’t:
Ich will vielmehr der werthen Welt
Großgünstig in das Buch noch tragen
Nachfolgende besondre Fragen;
Als welche mir sind zugesandt
Nur neulich von gar hoher hand;

Below is my translation attempt:

The following has to be made clear:
I’ll much rather want the whole world to benefit from this book than having future generations plagued by/in pondering the enigma, which solution was revealed to me, just recently by a higher hand (i.e. by an act from above).

MC – Trying to contribute

Your comments...

[Ed]

Your's is similar to mine:

You'll have to be satisfied here, enough already otherwise the enemies will learn.
They want me to slip up, (I am so excited and relieved that I have given you this look inside the wheel **),
but their desires will fail nevertheless. I will not speak about it publicly at this time.
This I am committed to. I sincerely want to continue into the next book and not get questions from the academic world.
Someone of high station (Karl?) recently directed me to do this.

And I think this mean that Bessler wasn't willing to take the answer to his grave, but that he did give out information. I think he wanted to get the information into the hands of the masses and not let some other learned person take it. In fact, it sounds as though he was relieved to put the data out in some form.

-Ed

[Stewart]

Zwar stille, stille, und genug,
Genug, sonst wird der Feind nur klug,
Der Feind, als der mich wil begeifern,
Begeifern, ich sol mich ereifern,
Ereifern und auf frischer That
Den Mantel werffen von dem Rad; x.
Doch dieser Wunsch wird ihm mißlingen,
Sein schnauzen mich dahin nicht bringen;
Diß sei an seinen Ort gestell't:
Ich wil vielmehr der werthen Welt
Großgünstig in das Buch noch tragen
Nachfolgende besondre Fragen:
Als welche mir sind zugesandt
Nur neulich von gar Hoher Hand:

Here's my translation:

But hush, hush, and enough,
enough, otherwise the enemy only gets wise,
the enemy, who wants to insult me,
insult, I shall get worked up,
worked up and in the act
throw the cover from the wheel; x.
However this wish of his will come to nothing,
his moaning won't drive me to that;
This to be put in its place:
I want rather the world to judge
more inclined on what this book has yet to bear
following specific questions:
which were sent to me
only recently from an even higher authority:

Wording it so it reads slightly better:

But hush, hush, and enough - enough, or else the enemy will only get wise. The enemy, who wants to insult me, insult - I shall get worked up, worked up and in the act throw the cover from the wheel; x. However this wish of his will come to nothing, his moaning won't drive me to that; Instead: I would prefer that the world was more inclined to judge on what this book has yet to bear, following specific questions which were sent to me only recently from an even higher authority:

Interpretation:

I must say no more or my enemies will understand how my wheel works. They insult/hurl abuse at me, hoping I'll get frustrated and throw aside my wheel's covering. Instead of trying to force me to show the inside of my wheel, I'd rather you study what this book has yet to offer, which was written as a result of receiving these specific questions from someone of high authority:

NOTE: the chapter (XLVI - 46) ends there but the questions are listed and answered in the next chapter.

The person of high authority was probably Karl as I doubt God would be asking Bessler questions.

Stewart

P.S. An interesting thing to note about the above: in the first five lines the last word of the line starts the next line.

[Stewart]

The symbol that is found at the end of many of the lines of AP and what we have been referring to as 'x's are infact two characters (or three if you count the .) and not 'x's at all. The first character is a round 'r' and the second is a 'c'. Together they make 'rc', the German Fraktur abbrieviation symbol for 'et cetera' which in latin is '&c' and in english is 'etc' and means 'and the rest'. There is a totally different character for 'x' in the Fraktur typeface. This means we should refer to them as 'et cetera's and not 'x's, and anyone looking for an 'et cetera' code should also take into account all the '&c's that follow lines that end with Latin words in AP.

Stewart

[AgingYoung]

The person of high authority was probably Karl as I doubt God would be asking Bessler questions.

Sometimes God puts a rhetorical question to someone to cause them to think.

Jer 1:11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Jeremiah, what seest thou? And I said, I see a rod of an almond tree.
Jer 1:12 Then said the LORD unto me, Thou hast well seen: for I will hasten my word to perform it.

At times you can hear a still small voice or what's called ideation.

[ken_behrendt]

I just had a chance to reread this thread and noticed the following quote of Bessler:

Does my machine also perform in the cold (when other machines are frozen)?" The answer lies behind the following: With my machine one can stay working pleasantly in Winter, as it whizzes and bangs. When other machines are nearly snowed up, mine runs along as new. If a hard frost creeps in there, it is Summer here, the weather shines.

To which Michael responds with:

...makes it seem even more likely that he was stating his machine is thermally warm inside.

I do not get the sense that Bessler is saying that his wheels somehow remained warm in the winter due to an internal heat source. I think he is just saying that in the winter his wheels are unaffected by the low temperature and operate just as they would in the summer.

I do not recall any tests of his wheels being done outdoors. However, if they were, then I think that the air and parts inside of the drum would equilibrate with the external temperature. Obviously, if the external temperature was below the freezing point of water, and the wheel continued to operate, then that would preclude the use of any kind of water based hydraulic system inside of the wheel to shift its weights. Of course, some might say that he would have used an oil of some sort that would have to have been cooled to a much lower temperature to freeze. However, I feel that the use of any sort of hydraulics or pneumatics within his wheels is very improbable. Such systems are not simple in nature as are ones composed mainly of weights, levers, springs, and pulley lines.


ken

[Michael]

Hi Ken. This is an old thread, but since you bring it up what makes you think a pulley system with wires etc. is simpler than a hydralic system (if that's what Bessler meant by his use of Bellows) ? I would seriously argue that point. Also, why do you dismiss points brought up by Stewart and stated by Bessler himself?

[ken_behrendt]

Michael...

Pulley systems offer some advantages over hydraulic and pneumatic systems. Mainly, a pulley system is far less prone to being disabled by low temperatures and leakage. Yes, it can suffer from wear over time, but so too can the moving seals in hydraulic and pneumatic systems.

Exactly what points brought up by Stewart and stated by Bessler himself do you think I am dismissing?


ken

[Michael]

Exactly what points brought up by Stewart and stated by Bessler himself do you think I am dismissing?

Mentioned in the other thread.