ok here's what i'm saying--build THIS (hehe) this has the required "cheat"(but note: this doesn't work)

[Dwylbtzle]

yeah
that makes sense!

[Dwylbtzle]

http://u2.lege.net/John_Keely/keelynet. ... 002641.htm

Why won't it work Dwy ?

and gee--it uses levity (buoyancy)
and twas invented by a guy who was a child genius inventor


and Murilo! look! what are ping pong balls, but BUOYS! You were right!

[Dwylbtzle]

so, judging from historical protocol
i guess, now, i'm suppose to post thread after thread
the title of each screaming something like: "ME AND FLETCH FOUND IT" or
"PROBLEM SOLVED!
now that i have the frictionless watertight sealant this wheel will work"
but worded slightly different each time
and call everyone dumbheads
right?
i'm new here--just making sure
hehehe

[jim_mich]

It's obvious that you have not walked the hallowed halls of Donald E. Simanek's Museum of Unworkable Devices where his buoy device #2 is exactly what you describe.

You still don't get why the fore mentioned wheel doesn't work.

JIM
I stated it wouldn't work
because the frictionless sealing method doesn't exist

A frictionless sealing method has nothing to do with why it won't work. There is a solid basic reason why the concept won't work. If you don't learn why a wheel half submersed and half not submersed does not work, then you will be forever chasing dragons. I was trying to help you.

oh and YES--all throughout: my stupid black humor
GUILTY AS CHARGED
gotta tone that down--yes--yer right

What do you mean by "stupid black humor" ? Yes, I think your humor is stupid. And I'm a more serious type guy. But what is meant by "black"? Is the humor dark and evil and foreboding? That does not seem to be the case. Or are you talking about race? Are you saying that you're a black dude? Just trying to get my head straight on what you're saying. Your style of writing makes it hard for me to always understand your meaning.

You must realize that many of us old timers consider the Bessler Wheel forum to be a serious search for the truth behind Bessler's wheel. All your frivolous humor is fine for a social chat room, but...

I could point out that you didn't offer any helpful comments on the content of IDEAS contained in my thread

Ah, but I did offer a helpful comment, but it went right over your head. I pointed you to Simanek's website. Which obviously you failed to read.

and having just got here
going thru lots of other threads
and answering each

Why do you feel a need to answer each thread? Why not read and absorb all the vast info. There is no need to regurgitate old threads. Ponder and think about the many ideas presented. Then use that vast knowledge to form your own ideas. Present your ideas in your own new thread. Since the quest for PM is such an ancient quest, your ideas have probably already been explored. The old-timers hear will attempt to gently point you in a direction whereby you can learn. Whether you listen or not is up to you.

Much of the time we simply ignore the more basic concepts that people post. It's obvious to us that they will not work. If we attempt to explain why, the PM newbie usually gets upset because obviously we don't see the genius in his idea. So we often just stay silent. Why make waves?

[Tarsier79]

Why make waves?

Good point.

Also, I wonder how much energy it takes to make actual waves?

[Dwylbtzle]

well, then we're both claiming the other is missing the point
yer STILL going for THAT FIRST WHEEL THAR DON'T WORK GOTCHA!

YOU should read someone's thread before you try to gotcha it
obviously you didn't
i never cared if the wheel worked
still don't
and i stated at the very beginning it wouldn't work
and then i stated in the title it wouldn't work
i thought it needed a non existent sealant--which apparently exists
but it doesn't matter
the whole point of the hypothetical construction was
and i will repeat it again
IF you find a way that works
it needs an impetus from outside the wheel
not from merely internal gizmos

ok since you don't explain YER reason why it won't work so i can or can't dispute it
here's another way to make a wheel that will work that still makes my point: take the tube--fill it with the ferrofluids inside a magnetic field
now the fluid won't spill out the bottom
have the ping pong balls going around like in the link fletch provided--string and pulleys wartever
now have an axle coming out of one pulley with a wheel going around off to the side

my point again made:
wheel is run by gravity
but not from merely gravity pulling down on the whole wheel evenly
with just internal gizmos getting it to flip
it has the requisite thing i was calling the CHEAT

so fletcher and i together have STILL been the only ones in any gravity wheel or free energy site that i can find
to propose a wheel that works
i was goofing around with something that i clearly said wouldn't work unless the hard part was brought in here
and he delivered the goods

[Dwylbtzle]

Why make waves?

Good point.

Also, I wonder how much energy it takes to make actual waves?

good scientific question
it would only take YOU as much energy as it takes you to position the rock over the water
then, when released, gravity would pull the rock down
an equal volume of water as the volume of the rock would be displaced
then the gravity pushing down on the rock would cause an equal and opposite reaction to make the rock weigh as much LESS as the volume of water displaced
voila waves

and that difference in weight
or that energy TRYING to lift the rock back up (though failing because it's denser than water)
is free energy
if you can tap it

thank you
i thank you all
no please
no need for applause
i owe it all to fletcher
and the little people, of course (Faeries)
hehe

[Fletcher]

For those interested in a little math.

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/buoy4.htm

[Dwylbtzle]

The work required to push a ball into the bottom of the tube by any method requires that work be done against the pressure difference between inside and outside. This is (at least) as large as the work the ball does in rising to the top of the tube.


the above from that link

i (edit here): normally feel inclined to agree
totally
the ky jelly kid doesn't explain how he does that

i was just assuming that if he could--as per yer link
(once again the hypothetical construct needed)
my point is the same:that an outside cheat is needed
NO MAGIC wheel

neither example has to work to make MY point
anyway-there's a way to dispense with the ferrofluids and string and ping pong balls altogether

[jim_mich]

If you have what you call, "an outside cheat", then it no longer meets the definition of perpetual motion.
A perpetual motion machine must able to perform within a totally enclosed environment.

[Dwylbtzle]

"the ky jelly kid doesn't explain how he does that"

which isn't to say he didn't find a way
that's why i said if we patent something based on HIS thing
we'd have to go three ways--couldn't leave HIM out
and why would HE wanna do that anyway?
hehe
he seems smart enough to have figured out how to use molecular forces to trump gravity
and he was smart enough not to explain how he gets around the problem you show there (the news article in the link just makes the claim)
so maybe he was smart enough to figure that out too
but he'll probably be smart enough to tell US to go to hell
i would HOPE so
hehe

[Dwylbtzle]

If you have what you call, "an outside cheat", then it no longer meets the definition of perpetual motion.
A perpetual motion machine must able to perform within a totally enclosed environment.

i've said i don't know HOW many times that that is correct
that bessler never claimed to have invented what is PM by yer above definition (then you tried the GOTCHA because he did use the WORDS perpetual motion--because it would move perpetually)

but nothing is trying to meet that definition
because it uses an outside force
gravity
which IS possible

edit: when i say IT--i don't neccessarily mean bessler's wheel
i have no idea how that worked or if it was a hoax or not
i just have my suspicions about both

[Dwylbtzle]

you clearly are even yet trying to gotchya me
without reading what i have said
when i say CHEAT it means as far as having something that might look like a gravity wheel that relies JUST on gravity hitting the wheel evenly
but rotating because of internal gizmos

so a facility of buoyancy that impels the edge of the wheel would be a cheat
but possible
a magnetic field would be a cheat
etc
etc

corealis effect could be
trained birds
invisible mice
there has to be a cheat
no magic wheel

[Dwylbtzle]

if i went ahead and ASKED
(in a HYPOTHETICAL construct that i said wouldn't work)
to (FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT) have anyone ASSUME (just for a second)
that a stupid slit box wheel (which i hate the idiot idea of--even IF it works--cause what a pain in the ass!) worked
then buoyancy would be the cheat
i was never trying to invent THAT dorpy thing

and i'm willing to use the ky jelly kids idiot ping pong ball pulley system as the same kinda HYPOTHETICAL construct
so i HOPED i could move on the the examples i wanted to deal with
to set up a concept

maybe the kid had treated ping pong balls and who knows what properties
that liquid has--before or after it's hit with the magnetic field

i mean, he invented a way to have a vehicle drive up a wall with ferrofluids
and the flying saucer floats because of ferrofluids bound with mercury so's it's denser yet magnetic still
and then is spun at insane speeds around a rim with magnetic fields
so it creates it's own gravitational field
and even a kid can throw a frisbie and demonstrate that principle
so who knows what that stuff does
maybe he broke the surface tension with some dish washing liquid from his mommy's kitchen
maybe --if his stuff uses magnetic fields to defy gravity...
maybe magnetically bombarded magic goop overcomes presurized magically treated magno ping pong balls coated with magnetic mercury--as mercury REVERSES capillary action
i don't know
doesn't matter
and who cares?
i don't need any of that silly goopy stuff anyway
i was all along just saying IF THIS THEN THUS THAT

i don't even need a dang wheel
but i [can/could/did i will not state it] rig one because everyone is gonna insist

the billionaire is gonna need a dang visual aide ne doubt

[eccentrically1]

Is Simanek a member of this forum?