ok here's what i'm saying--build THIS (hehe) this has the required "cheat"(but note: this doesn't work)

[Dwylbtzle]

I don't know. Is he a simian?
********************************
FLEEEEETCH!
just thought of something:
in yer last link they show standard water in a column
under standard conditions
with ping pong ball having to submerge and overcome pressure to get back into the bottom of the tube
this is water suffering (or enjoying) all the standard impact of gravity
if it's a fluid being zorpled around by internal magnetic-ness
zapped with magnetic field
so that it's even ignoring gravity
what is the pressure like in the liquid?
wITHin the liquid?
the molecules aren't going to be acting, or arranging, themselves "normally"
so pressure?
who knows
tension?
who knows?
surface stuff?
who knows?
ad what if the balls are coated with ferrofluid?
or filled with some lighter magno goop?
(just spitballin)
perfect examples of a possible CHEAT
but, presumably, once you get the permanent magnet in place
free gravity powered energy forever
well till you have to switch out the magnets every three thousand years or whatever

also--everyone--when yer dealing with the words "magical, imaginary, non existent, psychedelic, as-yet-uninvented, science fiction frikkin frictionless, watertight KY jelly that good luck getting to work" and then said "doesn't work" and then said "i hope doesn't work because i don't CARE if it works because it doesn't NEED to work" in a hypothetical construct--why are you nitpicking at how a real thing isn't gonna be helped by it?
so ain't a gonna worK?
sheesh
gee, how much invesment did i seem to have in that aspect working?
the point was that any problem with that slit isn't the point
that's gonna mean no surface tension no pressure difference
no ANYTHING frikkin real
and it's gonna mean sparkly gleaming fresh and clean smelling too
with shiny sheen
and charlie sheen gulpin it down, ne doubt
jeez louise






******************
later that night:

[Furcurequs]

Why make waves?

Good point.

Also, I wonder how much energy it takes to make actual waves?

I've read up on this in the past and did a quick review. From things I've seen on the web, apparently the interaction between earth, moon and sun generates about 3 terawatts (3 trillion watts or 3x10^12 watts) in tidal energy.

This loss of energy causes a drag on the earth which slows down the earth's rotation and moves the moon slightly farther away in its orbit by about 3.8 cm a year.

At the current rate of slowdown, earth days should be 2.3 milliseconds longer in 100 years.

http://bowie.gsfc.nasa.gov/ggfc/tides/intro.html

...and I read somewhere that the wind may contribute about another terawatt in "making waves".

In comparison, mankind's worldwide energy consumption averages about 15 or 16 terawatts.

...and the energy from the sun that reaches the earth's atmosphere is 174,000 terawatts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_energy_budget

Dwayne

[Dwylbtzle]

yes--we really should have no energy problem
it's almost obscene brother
we're bleedin SWIMMIN in it
solar molecular gravitational geothermal
corealis effect
wind
tide
it's sickening
like starving to death at an all you can eat buffet
because they told you you could ONLY eat dinosaur meat

hey
i heard that the sunami earthquake changed the earth's rotation too
now the day is a teeny bit longer or shorter
i fergit which

[murilo]

Is Simanek a member of this forum?

Yep... ECC... You got it!
Simanek is now reincarnated as a pure 'believer' at JB forum and have some karmic debits to deal! 8[[[
His novella is just starting! 8[

( SCOTT!!! HELP!!!! )

[Dwylbtzle]

excuse me, am i supposed to know what that means?

anyway
from the buoyancy thread:
(since this is meant to be the 'explanation of requisite "cheats" thread'

Dwylbtzle

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:16 pm Post subject: re: BUOYANCY

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...compressing air before bringing it asunder takes less energy than dragging it back down ass-is
fighting the earth all the way
(even when you consider the energy it took to compress the air)
and that is a miracle of the micro issue not the macro issue
if anyone would like to test that (my previous), statement: take a compressor and pump some air down a 100 ft steel tube immune from water pressure and guage how much gas you burned

then try to push a balloon with the same amt of air--in other words say as big as a barn
straight down 100 ft with brute force
and tell saudi arabia yer sorry about all that
now that they gotta starve and all
(cause you sucked em dry to do it)
the reason this is so is because fighting air molecules and squishing them is easier than fighting water on mother earth and her gravity
and who knows why
but there's yer cheat in this instance
the cheat for a gravity wheel also uses a miracle of modern medicinal molecules
(and their attending energetic phenomenae at the micro level--not their gross newtonian physics at the macro)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Dwylbtzle]

edit!--
OMG
the hard part HAS been invented!
http://u2.lege.net/John_Keely/keelynet. ... 002641.htm
so this idea DOES work!
this first idea, coming up, was just a throw away to lead into the next two in this thread
and then fletcher found this kid who made a working true gravity engine
and it uses what could be and IS a frictionless watertight sealant

********************************************

just to be unmistakably clear to those just popping in to this thread
the slit wheel was meant to be a joke example
(to show that even a wheel with NO gizmos within the wheel, IF IT DID WORK SOMEHOW--would have a cheat from the outside of said wheel-acting on one edge of the wheel--in this case buoyancy, not just plain old gravity pushing down on the wheel evenly all over-and relying, somehow, on crafty internal gizmos to keep it going forever)
and wouldn't work, as i said originally--because the idea of what happens with the slit has to be overcome
and so even now with the invention in the link helping--the wheel only works if the "sealant" or "magic ky jelly" as i was jokingly calling it
and which in the kids invention is a liquid which reportedly defies the normal properties of liquids
would still have to
A) first WORK--which no one here has seen so who really knows
and then allow the wheel to spin without letting the liquid spill out and with no surface tension and no pressure difference
or it wouild have to have some magnetic property in the liquid and/or in the wheel material which allows both to overcome pressure difference and friction and leakage
like i say: pain in the arse no matter what
all we know is the article says that claim for all three properties has been made--and the guy works for the government and is getting a patent

i gotta quit using throwaway "examples" that i know don't work, and have nothing to do with my idea, except in a feeble attempt to illustrate some other concept--every time i try to use a balloon or a buoy or imaginary wheel set up with a hyopthetical (that i'm asking to be let to get away with) people ask if that's how i would actually leverage something or do some work with it or would i tie it to a wheel with a string or what?
my own fault

**********

Q: How much psychedelic imaginary magic jelly can charlie sheen gulp?

A: Enough to kill two and a half men

[Dwylbtzle]

http://www.cuthbert-physics.com/

here's the gravity defying, frictionless, zero resistance, shlurping surfaced, jelly kid's site

gawd he looks so young

figures he'd be from Kymri


Oh Lord, he's talking about an "engine with only one moving part"
i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say this guy is probably the real deal
(don't laugh--the best fine gold recovery system ever developed is called a hydrofuge and has no moving parts,
i have one and i have a picture of it, somewhere, i will find it
--but briefly it has a hopper on top and riffles up the SIDE
and water comes in the bottom and swirls around, and exits near the top--and you adjust the flow as you pour yer material in the hopper, and the particles exit in order of their specific gravity--and gold's is 19.5
regular sand is 3-5, black sand is 7-9 or so, sometimes a little more
so it can process 800 lbs of material an hour and retains gold so fine it would settle out even thru a paper towel
i met the guy who owned the rights to produce it, and got mine from him--but he wasn't very good at marketing it, and died a year after i met him, so you don't see many of them)
here's one
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/h ... ncentrater

[Dwylbtzle]

this reminds me of another thing that could be a cheat, (and i've seen this work, myself), that i can illustrate
in fact, they showed a version of it on the TV show "Gold Rush Alaska":

panning gold from heavy black sand (which always forms where placer deposits of gold occur), with a gold pan, is a time consuming, back breaking task
so once you've gotten yer concentrates concentrated that far, one way to separate the fine gold is to let it pour into a device that's filled with water--and you have a big magnet off to one side
and as the magnetic black sands, mixed with fine gold, fall through the water--the magnetic stuff is pulled a bit to the side towards the magnet
and the gold falls straight down and gets sent off one direction, while the black sand gets sent through some slit and drawn off another direction

the "work" you are getting out of the magnet is because some molecular energy is being generated AT THE MICRO LEVEL by the mere fact that the iron molecules have been aligned
and that energy comes from WHO KNOWS WHY
and lasts as long as the molecules last and remain aligned

yes--it musta taken SOME energy to heat the iron molten and then align the molecules with a magnetic field and then let the whole thing cool down
but that doesn't have anything to do with anything

but anything you do with that magnet that involves imparting some energy to some part of some system is not OF ITSELF gonna automatically bring the law of conservation of energy into it

you've utilized some kinda "cheat" that is a facility of the energies involved with molecules at the micro level
and yer DOING something in a system at the macro level
and you got away with it you sneaky bahstid!

[Dwylbtzle]

ok, this was from the buoyancy thread
but i want it here, also, because these two theads are gonna get separated when they slip down the stream
eventually

*****************************************

(whispered voice of john lennon): "clue number 52"...
(voice of paul mcCartney): "Ahm Dead!"

(ok, i guess you'd havta be pretty ancient to get THAT joke)
:{?



James_Arne wrote:
Dwylbtzle,
One over sight people make is saying that gravity is a conservative force.
What they do not consider is that it is like a river that constantly flows.


i don't know if it's "a conservative force" or not--because it's not a force--there are 3 real forces in quantum mechanics--the strong atomic force--the weak atomic force--and the electromagnetic force
and then they call gravity the fourth "FORCE" but it's just the observable effects of a space/time warp generated by mass

so what i see is: a guy comes to a constantly flowing river--and he sets a millwheel down into it, but he submerges the whole wheel and then says "damn, a river is a conservative force" because he can't get the wheel to spin
if he used a CHEAT--which in this case might be a platform that allowed the water to hit the bottom of the wheel only
he'd be fine
and the definition of the river wouldn't have been altered

if you envision a see saw:--you can have two equal weights with gravity hitting everything equally
and if you move one weight towards the center--gravity, for some reason has more effect on the distant weight and less on the weight nearest the fulcrum: "light on one side but heavy on the other"--but you haven't changed gravity

the classic (bogus) gravity wheel diagram shows a wheel with gravity submerging it-(which thing is just automatically happening)-it's hitting every part of the wheel equally--so then the diagrams have
what become see saws radiating from the center--the center is the fulcrum, and, when one weight is closer to the center than it's couterpart on the other side of the wheel, that imparts downward force on the wheel where the weight is more towards the outside--but you have an equal amount of little see saws, so everything finds it's equilibrium eventually.
so the diagrams then resort to trying to use some gizmos to keep the weights closer to the center on one side
but they expect just the gravity coming down to supply some (the) extra energy to activate the efficacy of the mind numbing series of rube goldberg gizmos--and it never works that way and never will
it becomes a headache machine--(which would be a great name for a thrash-punk band, come to think of it)
but if you used some other free energy to reset the weights along SOME of the see saws, you'd have it
the newton cheating dishonest quantum mechanic (who is yer cousin) would have arranged it for you. "fix ya up, cuz!"--at the cousin prices (free)

if the energy you can get from tapping MORE gravity thru buoyancy is the cheat you wanna try:
hint: if yer not required to get all rube goldberg because yer insisting on making a wheel--and yer thinking of buoyancy to ju-jitsu flip gravity (levity)--(which could work in a wheel, i guess, i just never see how i'd wanna bother)...
try to get SO SIMPLE yer not even using anything to buoy up.

so you wouldn't even CALL it "buoyancy" it's just be "the principle buoyancy uses"
and don't try to lever anything or drag something down and then let it go up again
that's trapping you in conservation again
AND...
the principle buoyancy uses would only be usable AFTER the augment that allows you to do the cheat
you have to get the cheat situation before you start to engage the devices that do the work
otherwise it can't be used as some direct functionality
that's where everyone trips up
yule cheat yerself if you try that

don't fight newton
get around him

*************

here's just one example of a "free" quantum-based energy:
when they paint radium on a watch dial...
do you have to pay for that light in any sense of newtonian physics?
no
it took some energy to mine the minerals and then cook down the radium and then paint the watch hands with the paint
but that has nothing to do with anything
no chemicals are being combusted to create that light
no pistons churning to run any generator
atoms are decaying at the quantum level--and that lasts a long time
but back in the old newton world it can't be readily explained


that's not the cheat to run a gravity engine
but that's a cheat to see what time it is in the dark

think on that level

if you reset those weights in the wheel
with an outside free energy source-which can be done
the wheel WILL keep flipping around
and that's a gravity wheel
and yeah--you kinda cheated--

[Dwylbtzle]

the example of a lighter than air balloon is a sort of cheat
you couldn't throw a piece of latex or rubber fabric hard enough to send it to the top of the atmosphere and keep it there forever
you tried but gravity kept pulling it back down

so you formed it into a balloon and heated the air inside it
or filled it with helium or hydrogen
and it flips gravity and causes the air--which has the gravity pushing down on it
to push up on the balloon
and this is a facility of the gas molecules IN the balloon
that either already have a vitality disproportionate to their mass in relation to the outside air--as in the case of the helium or hydrogen
or have become possessing of such thru heating
once again:
a molecularly-based cheat acquired thru harnessing actions occuring at the quantum level
producing a "who'da thunk it?' on the newtonian level--but not really breaking any laws--just appearing to--defying the law of gravity

you always just have to figure out how to apply the cheat
then add it to the system that normally won't do anything at the newtonian level because that thing violates some law
it's just a matter of subborning a normally law abiding situation
if you can
and you end up with some situation that, at first glance, seems like it'd be breaking some law of physics
but it really isn't
there are plenty of examples of things in modern life that do this
and a gravity engine could be one of them

i'm sorry i can't just spell it out utterly
but those should be enough hints to figure it out