international fusion would be great
and something like that would be better as a big international undertaking
because it'll take huge capital investment
and criminals tend to be able to operate better within territories
every crew has it's turf-yes-and the territories are expanding, across borders and across genres--you might start out controlling gambling--then move into loan sharking-then prostitution -then garbage disposal--then cement contracts with bought off municipalities--(for the kickbacks)
then drugs-then real estate scams-then arms deals
then....THINK BIG!
now they've moved into financial wall street scams-on huge levels
all of the above requiring politicians in yer pocket
but it's hard to co-ordinate and cut deals that satisfy all crime crews in all countries and in all fields
all at once
and then buy off ALL politicians in all countries all at once
see? your making it harder for them--mafias naturally compete--not co-operate so much
(of course the illuminatai have probably sewn it all up
right?-hehe)
and if we ever have "THE ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT" (horrors)
that will be a nightmare again
because we've just gone back to making it easier again
a one stop shopping center for bribery and graft and corruption
hey--they should just have a world-wide bribery ap for every politician,
on facebook--THERE ya GO! www.quidproquo.com
(oh my god!--i just wrote that as a joke and the link turns blue and you can actually click it and it GOES somewhere! EEEEEE!)
:{/
Patent secrecy orders - of the economically significant kind
Moderator: scott
re: Patent secrecy orders - of the economically significant
Last edited by Dwylbtzle on Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-
James_Arne
- Enthusiast
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:08 pm
re: Patent secrecy orders - of the economically significant
I guess you're against what you can't control, right ?
re: Patent secrecy orders - of the economically significant
huh?
no--i'm saying if there's a method for some kind of control--selfish interests will try to find the method
and exploit it--which COULD mean cutting you or me or the world out of it
if it's harder to control
like an international effort--like the fusion project
it's harder for a vested interest to get their claws into it
when we're in here talking about "THE PATENT OFFICE"
to me--that means the USA
the claws might be reaching NATIONWIDE
hopefully not WORLD WIDE(yet)
to get some law that allows them to take yer patent for mere economic reasons
is just a matter of having a certain number of congressmen in yer pocket
(but, then, it would only be a US law)
sure--you or i could cast one vote against any politician...but ALSO:
one rich guy could hand that pol a suitcase full of cash
and they feel they desperately NEED that cash to get re-elected
they say a US senator spends 85% of his time on the phone--fundraising
also--besides "criminals" per se
we have to deal with oil and coal companies who may be trying legal AND
extra-legal methods to tie things up that could put them out of business...
and secretive governmental spook agencies, with three letters in their names, who may just think:
"russia and china better not get hold of this!"
or, then there's just plain ol': "what's good for Standard Oil is good for America"
to various lines of World Policy Strategy Thinking, (strategery), having
our fossil fuel industries hit hard might be deemed not too good for
business--and America is certainly all about business
we may have our energy supplies lined up just fine for them
(as far as they feel they need to be concerned with just now)
good enough to deal with
but what if just ANYONE could come up with endless energy?
what then?
gotta start whole new schemes to dominate
for a while, there, it was just: "concerns of national security"
NOW they're trying to come up with: "concerns of significant economic consideration"
and what's fair for the concerns of the inventor, is the least of their concerns
no--i'm saying if there's a method for some kind of control--selfish interests will try to find the method
and exploit it--which COULD mean cutting you or me or the world out of it
if it's harder to control
like an international effort--like the fusion project
it's harder for a vested interest to get their claws into it
when we're in here talking about "THE PATENT OFFICE"
to me--that means the USA
the claws might be reaching NATIONWIDE
hopefully not WORLD WIDE(yet)
to get some law that allows them to take yer patent for mere economic reasons
is just a matter of having a certain number of congressmen in yer pocket
(but, then, it would only be a US law)
sure--you or i could cast one vote against any politician...but ALSO:
one rich guy could hand that pol a suitcase full of cash
and they feel they desperately NEED that cash to get re-elected
they say a US senator spends 85% of his time on the phone--fundraising
also--besides "criminals" per se
we have to deal with oil and coal companies who may be trying legal AND
extra-legal methods to tie things up that could put them out of business...
and secretive governmental spook agencies, with three letters in their names, who may just think:
"russia and china better not get hold of this!"
or, then there's just plain ol': "what's good for Standard Oil is good for America"
to various lines of World Policy Strategy Thinking, (strategery), having
our fossil fuel industries hit hard might be deemed not too good for
business--and America is certainly all about business
we may have our energy supplies lined up just fine for them
(as far as they feel they need to be concerned with just now)
good enough to deal with
but what if just ANYONE could come up with endless energy?
what then?
gotta start whole new schemes to dominate
for a while, there, it was just: "concerns of national security"
NOW they're trying to come up with: "concerns of significant economic consideration"
and what's fair for the concerns of the inventor, is the least of their concerns
-
Furcurequs
- Devotee
- Posts: 1605
- Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:50 am
re: Patent secrecy orders - of the economically significant
During my college days in the 1980's when I worked at IBM, I spent one of my quarters there in a robot design group. I was told the robots that IBM sold at the time used pneumatic actuators but that the robots which they used internally and which my group designed were driven by electrical motors.
I remember a 5 axis arm that we were working on which was to be used to move silicon wafers around after they were sliced from the ingots. There was an attachment on the arm that blew air down onto the approximately 4 inch diameter (I believe it was) wafers to use the Bernoulli effect to "hold" them without actually touching them.
There were also 7 (and maybe 9?) axis robot arms mounted in a box frame that could move around a table.
We also had a full machine shop with skilled machinists who were prepared to whip out a newly designed part for the robots at a moment's notice.
I remember one engineer was working on optical character recognition at the time, also. ...and, remember, this was during the days when personal computers operated at only a few megahertz instead of gigahertz.
Anyway, I don't really see industrial robots as anything much more than some additional tools to use in manufacturing.
...and I doubt there are really that many people who would want the kind of jobs that robots do, anyway, if not just for the money alone.
I mean the whole manufacturing assembly line process to begin with, which is used to boost productivity of course, seems to be rather dehumanizing, don't you think?
I believe my mom said she spent a little while working at an electronics manufacturing company when she was younger repeatedly placing components in boards and tying the leads preparing them to be soldered.
...and I think my sister also spent a summer at a plant in town that made taco shells. She said the heat in the plant was well over 100 degrees where she counted and stacked the taco shells to be packaged as they came out of the ovens.
She said they wore rubber gloves, but it was so hot in there that the gloves would fill with sweat that would then run out onto the taco shells as they worked. Unless you like your taco shells extra salty, they might have done a little better with some sort of automated device there, don't you think?
Ideally, though, more people should ultimately benefit when products can be made more quickly, cheaply and with greater precision.
One of the main employers in my hometown - employing thousands - was a consumer electronics company which manufactured radios and televisions. My dad was a truck driver for them, even, and had 3 1/2 million safe driving miles.
If you haven't noticed, though, there aren't many televisions made in the U.S. anymore. Over the years due to competition the local company started shipping manufacturing jobs off to Mexico and then finally they closed shop here altogether - and after having been around for decades.
Some argue that according to court precedent, corporations have a legal obligation to maximize their profits to shareholders. Unfortunately, though, it seems this is often at the cost of treating employees as if they are just another commodity to be bought for the lowest price possible.
So, it seems now corporations are perfectly willing to ship off jobs to countries with very cheap manual labor and where the workers may have very little in the way of health or pension plans - if any at all, of course - not to mention poor working conditions.
I believe the real problems, then, certainly aren't the advancements in technologies that could benefit us all but rather in what sorts of people are running things and how they are now running things.
Dwylbtzle,
I have some friends who live just across the road from a national forest and I've helped them go get their firewood. I don't know if things have changed in recent years or if it is just different in different areas, but they told me they had to pay a small fee for a permit (around $20?) to get the downed trees and that there was also a limit to how much they could take. It was still a pretty good deal for those willing to do the grunt work, of course.
...but it certainly was a great deal of work.
Anyway, I don't know if I've added much to the discussion, but some of the things that have been mentioned reminded me of this stuff.
Dwayne
I remember a 5 axis arm that we were working on which was to be used to move silicon wafers around after they were sliced from the ingots. There was an attachment on the arm that blew air down onto the approximately 4 inch diameter (I believe it was) wafers to use the Bernoulli effect to "hold" them without actually touching them.
There were also 7 (and maybe 9?) axis robot arms mounted in a box frame that could move around a table.
We also had a full machine shop with skilled machinists who were prepared to whip out a newly designed part for the robots at a moment's notice.
I remember one engineer was working on optical character recognition at the time, also. ...and, remember, this was during the days when personal computers operated at only a few megahertz instead of gigahertz.
Anyway, I don't really see industrial robots as anything much more than some additional tools to use in manufacturing.
...and I doubt there are really that many people who would want the kind of jobs that robots do, anyway, if not just for the money alone.
I mean the whole manufacturing assembly line process to begin with, which is used to boost productivity of course, seems to be rather dehumanizing, don't you think?
I believe my mom said she spent a little while working at an electronics manufacturing company when she was younger repeatedly placing components in boards and tying the leads preparing them to be soldered.
...and I think my sister also spent a summer at a plant in town that made taco shells. She said the heat in the plant was well over 100 degrees where she counted and stacked the taco shells to be packaged as they came out of the ovens.
She said they wore rubber gloves, but it was so hot in there that the gloves would fill with sweat that would then run out onto the taco shells as they worked. Unless you like your taco shells extra salty, they might have done a little better with some sort of automated device there, don't you think?
Ideally, though, more people should ultimately benefit when products can be made more quickly, cheaply and with greater precision.
One of the main employers in my hometown - employing thousands - was a consumer electronics company which manufactured radios and televisions. My dad was a truck driver for them, even, and had 3 1/2 million safe driving miles.
If you haven't noticed, though, there aren't many televisions made in the U.S. anymore. Over the years due to competition the local company started shipping manufacturing jobs off to Mexico and then finally they closed shop here altogether - and after having been around for decades.
Some argue that according to court precedent, corporations have a legal obligation to maximize their profits to shareholders. Unfortunately, though, it seems this is often at the cost of treating employees as if they are just another commodity to be bought for the lowest price possible.
So, it seems now corporations are perfectly willing to ship off jobs to countries with very cheap manual labor and where the workers may have very little in the way of health or pension plans - if any at all, of course - not to mention poor working conditions.
I believe the real problems, then, certainly aren't the advancements in technologies that could benefit us all but rather in what sorts of people are running things and how they are now running things.
Dwylbtzle,
I have some friends who live just across the road from a national forest and I've helped them go get their firewood. I don't know if things have changed in recent years or if it is just different in different areas, but they told me they had to pay a small fee for a permit (around $20?) to get the downed trees and that there was also a limit to how much they could take. It was still a pretty good deal for those willing to do the grunt work, of course.
...but it certainly was a great deal of work.
Anyway, I don't know if I've added much to the discussion, but some of the things that have been mentioned reminded me of this stuff.
Dwayne
I don't believe in conspiracies!
I prefer working alone.
I prefer working alone.
re: Patent secrecy orders - of the economically significant
yeah--there may have been a 5 dollar administrative fee (or something like that) for the permit--back in '83, when i knew people who were doing it
then the wood was "FREE"--but baby you paid for it in sweat equity
hehe
i'd rather just pay 125 dollars for a cut and stacked cord, any day
**************
i heard a lot of jobs that went overseas are now coming back--because the slaves over there are demanding higher wages--and the supply and distribution chain is less of a nightmare if yer doing everything in yer own country
****************
yes--i say if you can get a robot to do a robot job--do it in spades
and then train the humans to do something worthy of a human being
and pay them the big bucks
things will advance faster for everyone that way, in the long run
at first, the people who were doing the crappy robot jobs, (i once worked in a facory winding wire on a goddam spool all day), will go: "hey! that was my one and only job! where'd it go?!"
so moving them up the human-worthy career path MUST be a high priority in all this
if the luddites had been offered training for managerial jobs
or made consultants or engineers
(whatever) with decent pay by the loom factory guys
they wouldn't have rioted
but that takes common sense and foresight and planning and capital and time--and educators --long range business acumen chops--social vision
all in sort supply in england in 1812
so what happened?--the guys who could assemble barns full of huge automated looms, did so--found some half monkey wino for each loom-paid him a penny an hour--and trained him to perform the few rote moves to operate the machines--and the ape child outproduced the skilled artisan by a hundred fold
so the factory owners just said "tough luck go pound sand" to guys who had been honored middle class bread winners the week before
and the same general thing happened in all the skilled industries
and the same thing happened in agriculture
so pretty soon the british government is paying one army to fight napoleon on the continent
and also paying a larger army to fight more luddites than napoleon's armies--right on british soil
the whole thing woulda been more efficient my way
but no one listens to me
hehe
then the wood was "FREE"--but baby you paid for it in sweat equity
hehe
i'd rather just pay 125 dollars for a cut and stacked cord, any day
**************
i heard a lot of jobs that went overseas are now coming back--because the slaves over there are demanding higher wages--and the supply and distribution chain is less of a nightmare if yer doing everything in yer own country
****************
yes--i say if you can get a robot to do a robot job--do it in spades
and then train the humans to do something worthy of a human being
and pay them the big bucks
things will advance faster for everyone that way, in the long run
at first, the people who were doing the crappy robot jobs, (i once worked in a facory winding wire on a goddam spool all day), will go: "hey! that was my one and only job! where'd it go?!"
so moving them up the human-worthy career path MUST be a high priority in all this
if the luddites had been offered training for managerial jobs
or made consultants or engineers
(whatever) with decent pay by the loom factory guys
they wouldn't have rioted
but that takes common sense and foresight and planning and capital and time--and educators --long range business acumen chops--social vision
all in sort supply in england in 1812
so what happened?--the guys who could assemble barns full of huge automated looms, did so--found some half monkey wino for each loom-paid him a penny an hour--and trained him to perform the few rote moves to operate the machines--and the ape child outproduced the skilled artisan by a hundred fold
so the factory owners just said "tough luck go pound sand" to guys who had been honored middle class bread winners the week before
and the same general thing happened in all the skilled industries
and the same thing happened in agriculture
so pretty soon the british government is paying one army to fight napoleon on the continent
and also paying a larger army to fight more luddites than napoleon's armies--right on british soil
the whole thing woulda been more efficient my way
but no one listens to me
hehe
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nicbordeaux
- Addict
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:54 pm
- Location: France
Re: re: Patent secrecy orders - of the economically signific
I think you may be confusing aerodynamics and gravity ...Dwylbtzle wrote:yes, jim--they shouldn't have let that damned frisbie through
because it demonstrates that a spinning disc creates it's own gravitatonal field
(this can be proven with a bicycle wheel lain out horizontal on a scale--the faster you spin it, the lighter it gets)
If you think you have an overunity device, think again, there is no such thing. You might just possibly have an unexpectedly efficient device. In which case you will be abducted by MIB and threatened by aliens.
ya all have missed a potentially good one.
some scientists have found a way to use some type of radio signal to control a frogz movements.
If they could use that on a person, lots of upsice. after all, the brain uses wave energy to procuce thoughts, emotions and movements. I think even science fiction has missed this one. it would be the ultimate weapon if it significant ability to interact with a human mind.
mass control could be possible to get people to understand a single thought as being meaningful or not.
some scientists have found a way to use some type of radio signal to control a frogz movements.
If they could use that on a person, lots of upsice. after all, the brain uses wave energy to procuce thoughts, emotions and movements. I think even science fiction has missed this one. it would be the ultimate weapon if it significant ability to interact with a human mind.
mass control could be possible to get people to understand a single thought as being meaningful or not.