Bhaskara "cage"...

[iacob alex]

..... of mind , or that old mercury-wheel ( including thousands and thousanda of duplicates...of this basic idea),is in my opinion the real tragicomedy we are living : in this manner, we have no chance to escape from a "dead-end".

A possible PM is out of this confusing enclosure for our mind...that Bhaskara proposal is a real "prison " for the human fantesy.

Outside this "indian-box",we can rediscover the charm of free-thinking ,inventing...including this "engineer's dream" !

All the best! / Alex

[Perpetual Motionist]

Hi Alex,

What happened? Wheel yet not moving? Same here.

“I, Orffyreus, ask thee the words of our Lord God,
“Are ye also yet without understanding?�

Forgive me. I am being a bit crazy and too silly here. Even if my wife divorced me, I lost all money, I saw my children stranded on road like beggars, still I wouldn’t call perpetual motion a “Bhaskara’s Cage�, but call it “Sage Bhaskara’s Message� and perpetual motion not an “Indian box� but an Age-old “Indian heritage� full of Wisdom.

Doing so would be a tribute to great Indian astronomers, mathematicians cum perpetual motionists who discovered Zero and infinity and so many things if I write them all here, it would make a book.

"The Indian mind has always had for calculations and the handling of numbers an extraordinary inclination, ease and power, such as no other civilization in history ever possessed to the same degree. So much so that Indian culture regarded the science of numbers as the noblest of its arts...A thousand years ahead of Europeans, Indian savants knew that the zero and infinity were mutually inverse notions."

"It is clear how much we owe to this brilliant civilization, and not only in the field of arithmetic; by opening the way to the generalization of the concept of the number, the Indian scholars enabled the rapid development of mathematics and exact sciences. The discoveries of these men doubtless required much time and imagination, and above all a great ability for abstract thinking. These major discoveries took place within an environment which was at once mystical, philosophical, religious, cosmological, mythological and metaphysical."

(source: Histoire Universelle des Chiffres - By Georges Ifrah Paris - Robert Laffont, 1994, volume 2. p. 3 ).

"Apart from this link of astronomy to astrology in ancient India, science of astronomy continued to develop independently, and culminated in original findings, like:

The calculation of occurrences of eclipses

Calculation of Earth’s circumference

Theorizing about gravity

Determining that Sun is a star

Determining the number of planets in the Solar System"

"In India I found a race of mortals living upon the Earth. but not adhering to it. Inhabiting cities, but not being fixed to them, possessing everything but possessed by nothing".

- Apollonius Tyanaeus (Greek Thinker and Traveler 1st Century AD)

Our desires and ambitions are cause of real frustration. All Cynicism arises when we are possessed by something ;like perpetual motion, when you are not obsessed, you know the rules you “can rediscover the charm of free-thinking ,inventing...� as you stated , yes, by inventing perpetual motion .

Ya, you truly said. perpetual motion is great tragicomedy- full of wit and humour, delight and despair, sense and non-sense, full of crazy and talented inventors, of enlightened mystics and philosophers, pope and priests, King and butler, rich and poor, scientists and engineer and so on. . The perpetual motion is also the story of many exceptional inventors who by the sheer force of imagination and ingenuity never relented in their efforts to invent a perpetual motion machine. Invention of perpetual motion machine is unique in many respects, in terms of effort, time, and money and bargains that man made to realize the invention and it’s potential. So far in human history, no single invention other than perpetual motion has consumed tremendous amount of man's energy and talents. Thousands of men in every part of the world have taken part in devising perpetual motion, and it continues forever. “…the problem of making a machine that would run for ever has probably absorbed more man-hours than the building of the Egyptian pyramids�, says A.K. Dewdney the author of the book “Beyond Reason. Eight great problems that reveal the limits of science�

It is no exaggeration to say that the tremendous amount of mental and physical energy that man has invested in making perpetual motion a ‘reality’ is unparalleled in human history so far. Science has put every hurdle in realization of the truth but in spite of resistance from science, perpetual motion still thrives today. The idea of perpetual motion is ages old but the quest has been fresh and attractive forever, and year after year in fresh succession, it continues to appeal enthusiastic inventors, as it is evident from the records of the patent offices all over the world. Perpetual motion is a long story, which consists of unending train of inventors with full enthusiasm. It is really difficult to seek a balance in presenting facts and bring the subject some order out of chaos generated by charlatans, scientist and their erroneous laws. Moreover, what about the claims of free energy devices (perpetual motion in new form) that are being invented day by day? I don't agree with all the claims. There is unlikely to be a simple and effective method of knowing the truthfulness of any given claim, but we do have a multitude of criteria to apply, and a collection of simple and complex tools that can help us evaluate claims. It is also true that there are few cases where promoters of perpetual motion are manipulative and un-ethical charlatans. There were many fraudulent perpetual motionists who claimed to invent perpetual motion, when their invention was subjected to examination by the experts, frauds were exposed. Such frauds in the name of perpetual motion have brought only a bad name to it. It is hardly needful to mention that science is also not free from cheating and frauds. The difference being only that a fraud in perpetual motion spoils hundred people but fraud in science and engineering spoils many generations.

Vast number of claims and abortive attempts of perpetual motion have brought lot of confusion, yet truth of perpetual motion cannot be denied and undermined. All over the world, in search of perpetual motion, thousands of persons have devoted their whole lives but their efforts have never been appreciated. An incredible amount of labor and effort is still being invested to design a variety of perpetual motion machines. Unfortunately, invention of perpetual motion has awful side to it. There have been many untold martyrs of perpetual motion. No one knows all about the sufferings of those who have given up everything for the noble cause and died in despair and poverty. Many inventors have gone mad who lost everything for it- money, time, and labor. At the end of the day, they died penniless with shattered dreams. These were ordinary people who strongly believed that they were on the discovery, which would create history, and give them name, fame and wealth. But perpetual motion has often been fraught with failures. In utter frustration, few even committed suicide and there are still others who have developed abnormal behaviors, undergone changes of character as a result of stress and strain caused by invention and began to behave like Newton, who, in 1693, had a nervous breakdown caused by loss of his long confidante friendship with Swiss-born mathematician Nicolas Fatio de Duillier.

Richard Arkwright (1732－1792) lived in poverty until he invented his automatic Spinning Machine and established his factory. Before he invented spinning jenny, he was bent upon inventing perpetual motion machine but his wife often quarreled and vexed at him being so engrossed in the construction of perpetual motion. One day she destroyed his machine. His wife’s intention for destroying his machine was that she hoped Arkwright would give up the development of perpetual motion and thus save money for the family. However, Arkwright was a kind of man who was stubborn and impulsive, so he preferred to seek divorce from his wife. After the divorce, though he could not invent perpetual motion; in 1767, he invented a spinning machine for spinning thin cotton thread from raw cotton, employing the power of the water-wheel.. With this machine, he established the factory production with consistent operation, and became the first industry capitalist. Many have been the victim of perpetual motion. Let me quote a tragic news item here.

Another “Perpetual Motion Victim�

“Man Shoots Wife and Himself After Failing to Solve the Problem.� By Marconi Transatlantic Wireless Telegraph to The New York Times. LONDON, Feb. 12.2006

“-Perpetual motion “has claimed another tragedy. At an Inquest on the' body of Hans Edgar Friese, who shot his wife and then himself on Saturday, the evidence showed that Friese had the “mania of invention� and had been trying to solve the problem of perpetual motion. Friese spent all his money In mak'ing a machine, which was a failure.�

Among all such tragedy and vicissitude, study of perpetual motion has its own fascination. In search of perpetual motion Henry Dirk went to the extent of digging the graveyard where the inventor of perpetual motion machine, II Marquis of Worcester was buried. Perpetual motions, in all its diverse forms have fascinated researchers. Their studies have brought intellectual satisfaction to keen people. For example, Fortunio Liceti (1577-1657) made a lifelong study of perpetual motion lamps, so many of which were supposedly found in old tombs, vaults and temples.

As you stated, the fascinating history of perpetual motion is a lot like being a tragicomedy: There are moments of high hopes (like monumental achievement of Orffyreus), some dry spells (like false claims of charlatans, e.g. Kelley, Reheffer), some outright anguish (against establishment of law of conservation of energy and physicist)’ and some important breakthroughs unknown until they become known and a total victory in the end, hopefully, even by you, before Mayan calendar ends.

Bhaskaracharya had only passing interest in perpetual motion, called in Sanskrit “Swayamvahaka Yantra.� Perpetual motion being a Vedic heritage, it was a tradition among Indian astronomers to deliberate on perpetual motion so astronomer Bhaskaracharya too after Brahmagupta and Lallacharya, his predecessors, provided a very brief description of construction of a mercury driven perpetual motion machine in his book “Sidhhanta Shiromani�. Almost around the same time, King Raja Bhoja provided a description of his mercury driven aero plane in his Magus Opus “Samarangan Sutradhara, a text on architecture.

In my opinion, Bhaskaracharya proposal is not a real prison as you suppose, but it is indeed a heaven once you invent the perpetual motion like Edward Somerset and Orffyreus. Vedic perpetual motion with its cosmology, astronomy, philosophy, medicine etc has great message for our civilization.

There have been enlightened perpetual motionists who experienced real thrill of perpetual motion. In one context of perpetual motion automata we find Raja Bhoja, in eleventh century, stating “What else becomes practicable in the world, a different type of wonder and what more as satisfying may be there as provoker of inquisitiveness, and what more may be an abode of repute a different receptacle of desires and whatever more may be sacred and what ever may be such as alleviator of torment or anxiety.� ( King Raja Bhoja, S.S. 31.85)

Well, cynicism in perpetual motion is natural as it is fraught with failures. So, it is matter of personal perception how you look at perpetual motion. Alex once you invent it, you won’t express like this.


You may call perpetual motion an “Indian box�, but being an Indian I consider it as Indian heritage that has guided the rest of the civilizations. We would commit an error if restrict astronomy to a mere telescope, time to mere clock, and vast and profound perpetual motion to mere perpetual motion machine. Well, They are blessed who are on path of perpetual motion, it is a matter of time only.

British scientist, historian and sinologist known for his scientific research and writing on the history of Chinese science, Joseph Needham and his observations on Indian fascination with perpetual motion as revealed by continual tradition of perpetual motion in astronomy are noteworthy.

He remarked:

“to seek the ultimate origin or predisposition of the Indian conviction in the profoundly Hindu world view of endless cyclical change, kalpa and mahakalpas succeeding one another in self-sufficient and unwearying round. For Hindus as well as Taoists, the Universe itself was a Perpetual motion machine.�

Best regards

Sincerely yours,

Perpetual Motionist

[iacob alex]

Hi P.M. !

I respect your affective discourse...as a dress of your thought...but,you see,Nehru said that "...a theory must be tempered with reality".

Regarding the topic of this forum,I prefer a short language...

By the way:an indian concept (Prajna-a kivi emigrate in UK),emerging from the "technical folklore" (old fair-grounds) ,you can find at:

http://declarepeace.org.uk/jhula/

It's something alike Milkovic's lever with a pendulum...with a very old "root" ,also:the shadouf.

All the best! / Alex

[Perpetual Motionist]

Hi Alex !

I am sorry for the long post; I would try my best to be brief after this post. I just want to give some view of my position. I hope you won't mind it. Thanks for the link. Thanks for the respect shown to “affective discourse� vs “reality� as u probably perceived it.

Thanks for the Pandit Nehru’s quote- a theory must be tempered with “reality�. However, the development and final establishment of a right theory that must be tempered with “reality� is not an overnight matter; it must be followed by long series of “affective discourses� and debates in order to get right direction and to match with what constitutes a “reality� in a harmonious and coherent manner. Philosophers say philosophy is mother of science. Metaphysicians have many theories of understanding “reality�. A Vedantist say “reality� is unknowable, “Brahma� is the only ‘reality’ and world is illusion. An eloquent speaker, Pandit Nehru ji also knew very well that what actually constitutes a “reality� is largely ‘subjective’, a matter of perception, and mainly the subject matter of metaphysics, objectivity of which can hardly be settled without ‘affective discourse’ among metaphysicians or philosophers. Certainly, an example is better than precept but it is also true that without some understanding of the “reality,� which also requires a first step in philosophy, followed by an effective discourse; one can hardly create some ‘example’. So there is a vicious circle.

It is quite intriguing to note that without knowing the “reality� of what energy is, what it is not, what is ‘work, whether gravity is a push or pull, whether one can create something out of nothing or not, what is inertia, and what not inertia is, a majority of inventors has continued to tinker with their perpetual motion wheels, the result has been largely the failures. I have now increased feeling that right from the beginning, there has been lack of “affective discourse� in perpetual motion on certain issues so far. Vying with each other without a consensus being brought on certain issues will only make delay further. Inevitably, so perpetual motion has been taking indefinite time for its fruition which is evident. When experiment leads to conflicting result and doesn’t confirm to ‘reality’, the only recourse is “affective discourse� and a consensus decision in the end to give an end to all conflicts. Did Helmholtz carry out any experiment to establish his so called principle of conservation of forces? Nevertheless, other scientists who carried a number of experiments with inclined planes, projectiles, helical, pendulums, vibrating springs, and falling bodies, fluids and pistons, eventually, erroneously establish the fact that ‘perpetual motion is impossible’, hence, in course of time, came the law of lever, principle of Virtual work, the principle of excluded perpetual motion as forerunners of the law of conservation of energy. .I would only say that experiments which they conducted had no corresponding “reality� with laws of perpetual motion; they were misled but not our hero Orffyreus who had a different “reality�. In addition to his untiring labours, he was guided by ‘intuition’ and inspired by his religious faith, which led him to success.

We cannot undermine the role and the value of ‘affective discourse’ and debate in the making of the history of science. Just recall- the little amount of experimentation, but the great and long discourses, even, perpetual verbal battles and fights among the scientists who were struggling hard to understand the “reality’. Discourses on formula MV2 or just half of it, and on nature of ‘vis viva’ or ‘vis mortuoso’ took centuries to settle the truth. So ‘affective discourse’ has been intrinsic to the development and analysis of any theory in the history of science.

Not only ‘affective discourse’ serves as the method of identifying the right theory and values behind an invention and thus, preparing fertile grounds for them, but also it provides an effective strategy and academic norms of dealing with opponents. I think Orffyreus couldn’t manage his discourses affectively and failed in the end. His discourses didn’t focus on the subject proper but were directed to defend his enemies. Had he focused on the subject proper, he would have secured his position in main stream also. Well, I can’t claim anything about my expertise on ‘affective discourse’ on any matter, I am just an old fashioned perpetual motionist who loves “Natural philosophy� and ‘Natural magic’ more as compared to science and technology as already told somewhere. After having studied his “Sidhhanta Shromani�, it became my strong strong conviction that Sage Bhaskara provided enough information that can immensely help anyone to cut the "Gordian knot" of gravity- actuated device, so I won’t call his device a “Bhaskara Cage� as you have called. His perpetual motion was easily understood even by demon Mayasura (cf carpenter boy), after all, we human beings have better intelligence and disposition than the demon. Where is the difficulty? “unshakable faith, penance, persistence and devotion to nature on our part are the prerequisite for acquiring any great secret of nature.� answers Surya Sidhhanta.

Best regards

Sincerely yours,

Perpetual Motionist

[Aman]

Nice post!
Yes India is obsessed with mathematics,right from religion to commerce and to science as a whole.
I am also from India and I am proud to be an Indian!Jai Hind!

[Rafael Ti]

Bhaskara proposal is a real "prison " for the human fantesy.
Outside this "indian-box",we can rediscover the charm of free-thinking ,inventing...including this "engineer's dream" !

Yes... the Bhaskara Wheel must be an Indian Wheel of Karma. No free-thinking and HOPE outside of it...:):) /joking/
However if the chambers for balls are short enough and located far from the center, the wheel has a potential to work (???) I believe.
Some sketches may be helpful.

[Perpetual Motionist]

Hi Alex,

An easy to build permanent magnet free energy motor

Visit link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PDeK6rp ... video_user

Any probability of being fake?

best regards

P-M

[Perpetual Motionist]

Hi Aman,

Thanks for the comment. Ya, Indian astronomers, mathematicians cum perpetual motionists were obsessed and enlightened too. Making any good progress with your perpetual gravity powered engine that is sincerely obedient to laws of thermodynamics? I don't know why my OVB is not sincere.

Sincerely yours,

P-M

[Perpetual Motionist]

Hi Rafael Ti,

Pictures u posted here do not represent mercury driven Bhaskara Wheel that actually contained mercury vessels tangentially placed on two radii, in a zig zag manner, their motions followed the rules of ellipse, differential equations and calculus discovered by Bhaskara almost six - seven hundred years before Newton. Your pictures are versions of the Merlin OVB Wheel as shown in old editions of Chamberlain's encyclopaedia. Do you know Newton at his childhood attempted to obtain perpetual motion by putting a rat into his machine?

Best regards

Sincerely yours

P-M

[Perpetual Motionist]

Hi Aman,

Sorry, I forgot to bid Jai Hind! Once again Jai Hind !

Sincerely Yours,

P-M

[iacob alex]

Hi P-M !

Between your sacrosanct "Bhaskara Wheel" and the "Archimedes Lever", recognized as the basics for the mechanical science,let's meet in the middle (a proposal of an indian,also, living in UK),at :

http://declarepeace.org.uk/jhula/

A lever can be regarded as a "minimal wheel" (two spokes ),if you like...

About "magnet free energy" youtube movies...the probability of being a fake ,is great...

All the best ! / Alex

[Rafael Ti]

Jai Hind P-M!
Do you know a right original picture of Bhaskara wheel? Would you post me a link? What I've found is only this;
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/overbal.htm
They say it doesn't work...
I still believe there may be formula or equitation for this wheel that makes it workable.
However, for now I need to try the concept with guide on side. That will make weights from 6 to 9 o'clock less effective.

Regards

[Perpetual Motionist]

Hi Alex !

Thanks for your comment that “Bhaskara Wheel� is sacrosanct to me, yes, sure, but still I am not being more sacrosanct than the physicist, we see, to him the law of conservation of energy is the most sacrosanct thing in the world, he is blind to see the truth of perpetual motion, even he fails to conceive that planetary motion around the Sun is perpetual motion. .

Not only “Bhaskara wheel� but also everything looks sacrosanct to me as I find that Gods work is everywhere, and surely, I would be profane if I don’t look everything as sacrosanct. Truth is higher than religion. When truth is found encoded in glyph and symbol, we have difficulty to arrive at the bottom of the truth and all sorts of confusion and misunderstanding arise. The self-moving Tripods of the Olympian Gods’, the wheels of Eckzeil, Tri-pada, Tritala, and Trichakra aerial vehicles of Vedic gods and Bhaskara Wheel all are sacrosanct to me for the only reason, that I believe, they contain the truth hidden under the symbol in order to prevent the profane to learn the secret. When I study the Orffyreus system, I see it more clearly as “Bhaskara Wheel�. As long as results are encouraging, I am unilateral in my approach; I have faith in one system and don’t prefer and jump to other system.

When Archimedes said, "Give me a place to stand and I will move the Earth," he was speaking in the spirit of a perpetual motionist; he was referring to unlimited advantage of leverage. It's a well-established principle that with a level and a fulcrum, strength can be multiplied.

Yes you are right. Wheel and axle is a perfect device. It acts as wonderful balance, inclined planes, combination of levers, lift and multiplier of forces. However, the wheel is much more than that, I do not prefer a reductionism to see profundity of the wheel in its parts, I tend to see it in totality, therefore, consider the “wheel� as a “whole� where sum of parts is greater than whole and try to understand the wheel in a similar manner Buddhist and Theosophist see it. .

About “Jula.� In my opinion there are a number of ways to create unbalance or asymmetry to continuously add momentum to build various gravity- actuated free energy devices. “Jula� shares some of the features of Milcovich pendulam , still it appears to be more complex on account of latching of bearing . I don’t think that blocking is a welcome idea because it will directly affect the mobility of the link. It has many links, I don’t prefer the number of links many more to retain the simplicity of the gravity-actuated device. I do not consider “Jula� based device better than Bhaskara’s wheel for so many reasons as below. Let me say:

The lesser are the number of links, the greater the probability to connect to inexhaustible source of energy

The lesser are the number of links, the greater the stability

The lesser the number of links, the higher the simplicity.

Greater the flexibility, greater the agility

Hence, the greater the number of links, the greater the complexity and the more are the chances of failure.


Perpetual motion is the ‘link’ between the existence and non-existence. Vedantist say “Multiplicity is the cause of all problems�. In one of my ost to James I said that perpetual motion is the perpetual motionists To arrive, unite or ‘link’ with the unified source of inexhaustible energy, we need to strike a balance between the forces, introducing the elements of harmony and synergy. But a novice perpetual motionist by introducing many ‘links’ into the design of his gravity wheel, distances himself from the ‘unified source’. So to extract energy, it is unfortunate that perpetual motionists are using a greater number of links to get connected to manage forces and movement.

Sincerely yours,

P-M

[Perpetual Motionist]

Hi Rafael Ti !

Thanks for your interest in “Bhaskara wheel� design. The site you mentioned doesn’t represent “Bhaskara wheel� in correct manner. I can’t suggest u any link as it is not in my knowledge. However, here I post one picture which shows basic principle of “Bhaskara’s perpetual motion when adapted to the Bessler’s wheel. Outer details like half filled mercury vessels tangentially placed are missing as intent of the author is to show the inner mechanism- the Path and link design. It is very much obvious to me that Bhaskara applied his planetary equations to build Bhaskara’s mercury wheel. It may take some time to provide you the right precise equation if any, so please wait for it. I believe that basic principles of Bhaskara’s mercury wheel and Raja Bhoja’s self moving “mercury driven aero plane called “Ambuchari� are also same. Comprehensions of them require basic knowledge of philosophy of lever and mercury in relation to celestial mechanics. Hopefully, I will discuss them in future.

Philosophical Mathematical basis of perpetual motion was established by Aryabhatta who invented zero in 498 AD. Zero represents “whole�
According to His Divine Grace Deva Ramananda, Aryabhatta believed in truth of Isopanisad invocation:

Om purnamadah purnamidam Purnatpurnamudacyate l

Purnasyapurnamadaya Purnam evavasisyate ll


Zero represents wholeness and emptiness. All mechanical components in perpetual motion strive for infinite symmetry and ‘stable equilibrium’ by counterbalancing their forces against each other. However, soon they succeed, symmetry is broken by ‘weight superior’ and this cycle repeats. For detail refer to my previous post to James.

Aryabhatta was a teacher in Nalanda University, the then biggest Buddhist monastic University in the world. During his times, Nagarjuna, who was a legendary abbot of Nalanda University, had the greatest influence over Indian thinking. His idea of ‘sunyata�(emptiness) was literally accepted in the concept of zero(sunya). Most probably, Aryabhatta mathematicized the sunyata doctrine.

The rules governing the use of zero were elaborated by Brahmaputra in the book Brahmasputha Sddhanta written in 628 AD. Brahmaputra is also the first discoverer of perpetual motion . But, the first appearance of symbol for zero as a small circle appears on a stone inscription at Gwalior dated 876 A.D.The appearance of actual sign of zero as a circle during 9th century is part of greater movement in which circles gained much distinction in India’s finest Vedic traditions.

I tend to write rashly on perpetual motion in detail, Alex wants to be brief here, Hopefully, once again he will forgive me


Sincerely yours,

P-M

[Perpetual Motionist]

Hi Rafael Ti !

oops ! I cant fix image here. I never tried before. Forgive me for my ignorance, I will try again.

P-M