Scott please do away with the rating system.....

[LustInBlack]

Then, what you mean, is that 99% of the posts on besslerwheel are useless.. And I agree, that's why I simply disappeared and came back frustrated.

Btw, I don't see the problem with nicknames.. This is the internet, I guess we should simply accept that this forum is never going to be a place where people respect each other and where ideas are shared.

[Grimer]

It is inevitable that people like Sjack who, unlike yourself, want to monetize their ideas by patenting are not going to share them with others.

However, there are plenty of people, apart from yourself, who are disinterested in filthy lucre and are perfectly happy to share their ideas. Pathfinder is a good example.

Perhaps the best reason for sharing is given by the following (5.00 min in).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&featu ... H_wu4b8ABM

There's not much point in bumping people off when their experiments and the scientific arguments underpinning them have been shared world wide.

[bobriddle]

LustInBlack
>> This is the internet, I guess we should simply accept that this forum is never going to be a place where people respect each other and where ideas are shared. <<

So true.


Grimer
>> It is inevitable that people like Sjack who, unlike yourself, want to monetize their ideas by patenting are not going to share them with others. <<

I've been pretty much attacked for trying to work with anyone on an idea I have. I have a shop I'll be moving into later this month. Since attacks is about all some people have, I will be starting my own business.
I had one idea for how Heron's Fountain could work perpetually but 2 people claimed a lame video one of them made proved it was theirs.
It seems the skeptics are the only credible people and if something is proven to them, then they can claim their skepticism is what lead to the discovery, not someone else's work and research.

Jim

edited to add, when I tried discussing the idea I am setting up a shop to build, one person asked me why I attack people who point out that I am wrong. I like that attitude. No building, no testing, just posting. And for what tests I have done, they do support the work I have been doing.
Still, it if all works out for me, then besslerwheel.com wheel come off as fraudulent because sound engineering principles will have been discredited.

[LustInBlack]

Grimer, I hope your answer is destinated to Ralph, because, for one, I shared every single ideas I had until about 2009-2010.. Simply because I felt we were a handful doing it!

I personally work with several people privately by email.

Since I don't have that much money to pour into this quest, what I did is setup a 3d printer build process with a makerbot thing-o-matic, and I simply build my own stuff.. I learned a lot, I learned gear tooth profiling, gear types etc.. I have automated my builds script so that I can build gears automatically by specifying the paramters and type, I build my own 3d printed bearings and they work quite well too..

My system gives me the ability to test an idea in such a short time that it's just unbelievable..

So why am I saying that? oh well I guess I want to show that there are a bunch of people that work in secrecy and that any of you who think the rep system is valid and that some red dots guy are doing nothing; that you are simply wrong.

It goes to show that this rep system is not really the problem, it's that members have no intention in giving away ideas and helping each other.

I for one, would have like to have a library of mechanism from which we can see what the failure is, explained properly by people that are much more skillfun than I, in maths and physics..

Don't you think that it would be much more efficient to work on this project as a whole? Instead of everyone taking baby steps and doing the same failures again and again until they are completely fed up and no longer feel interested???

[Grimer]

Oops! I can see that my second sentence might have been misinterpreted.

Perhaps my meaning would've been clearer if I'd written:

However, there are plenty of people, like yourself, who are disinterested in filthy lucre and are perfectly happy to share their ideas.

In other words I was classing you within that set of people who are "disinterested in filthy lucre and are perfectly happy to share their ideas."

As for members co-operating and working on the problem as a whole in my view many members are.
As for those who aren't good luck to them. The important thing is the baby, not who brings it to maturity.

[LustInBlack]

.. Ahh makes sense, I read too fast!

[jim_mich]

I for one, would have like to have a library of mechanism from which we can see what the failure is, explained properly by people that are much more skillfun than I, in maths and physics..

Having a library may seem desirable, but in reality, the whole world around you is a library of what works and what does not work. Bessler made a library of unworkable wheels. But do people believe him? No. People keep going back to his MT drawings, trying to find a gravity powered wheel. Donald Simanek has his Museum of Unworkable Devices, which contains most every conceivable type of unworkable perpetual motion gravity wheel.

There is a very simple reason why gravity wheels don't work. But everyone keeps searching for a gravity wheel. Bessler's wheel will not be solved by people working together to find a gravity wheel. The reason is that Bessler's wheels were not gravity wheels. They were motion wheels.

[rlortie]

Grimer, I hope your answer is destinated to Ralph, because, for one, I shared every single ideas I had until about 2009-2010.. Simply because I felt we were a handful doing it!

Ralph ((I) use to share ideas until I ran out of them! I have not worked on a design that I could call my own for the last four years. I do not share the ideas that I have been entrusted to analyze and possibly build because they are not mine to share. I work with and possibly augment designs sent to me by people seeking my assistance.

Having never revealed anything received in a confidential post, and not having any disappointed client/collaborators is likely why I have earned my present reputation standing.

I have no problem and wish more that I have worked with would reveal their failed designs, but it's up to them to make that decision. And yes, I am currently working with members of this forum.

Just this morning I was awaken by a phone call from a person calling himself "Glenn" from Michigan who was interested in gravity wheel designs and when asked, stated that he had never heard of BesslerWheel.com

As for a library of failed designs, I agree with Jim_Mich, the world is full of them. Here is one that was brought to my attention less than an hour ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ldaWsOW ... hxpNUMYciU

I leave it up to those currently involved with Buoyancy to explain why it will not work.

Ralph

[LustInBlack]

Maybe my idea is not clear enough. Let's say you have x machine that have y components. A description of every components and their function would be explained in the library. So a machine would be the assembly of many independant components or mechanical descriptions.

You then have 2 distincts categories and each new machine created insert new mechanical components with a description and so on.

Eventually, you have a database that describes every mechanical action possible and soon, you can start describing a mechanical function by associating many components together.

So one day, you decide to make a machine and get some kind of problem that you want to fix, let's say it keels and you need that extra 25 degrees to make it work. You search the database for similar problem and get a list of machine that did the exact same thing, by reading the mechanical description of those machines, you'll get the idea that your machine is novel or not. You will also be able to find a different mechanical arrangement that could benefit your machine.

Let's say, I want unidirectional rotation movement of one part, I have many solutions, I could use free running one way bearings using draft ball channels or use simple ratchets. Each of those mechanical component have something useful or not. It could also have a price and complexity rating on them..

If you go as far as having an online editor in which you can assemble quick designs, it could be powerful and helpful. How about having a problem on the forum and instead of describing the same thing over and over, you simply type the machine description syntaxically and a machine template appear with the desired components? That's certainly possible.

I can go on and on, like creating an artificial AI that permutates all possible components with all possible variables and simulate all those machines, etc.. Sure it wouldn't find anything that would not be found or understood by physics, but it still would have a good value for us.


Anyways, that's really what I wanted to do, but I understand that it's quite ambitious! I do understand also, that our "clients" are not necessarily good or willing to play with computers also...

But I feel that there must exists a method, organised, to make everyone work in cooperation.. Because, right now, this forum is a waste of time!

[LustInBlack]

Ralph, yeah I know you are active out of this forum and that this forum is useful to you for making contacts, more than sharing ideas or discussing mechanics..

I understand that you guys are more hands-on people and that you could care less about the tech side, I respect that. But people like me think differently and are far less involved in the "physical matter" so to speak.. I guess it's the way I convey an idea to reality; it's simply different.

[rlortie]

I can go on and on, like creating an artificial AI that permutates all possible components with all possible variables and simulate all those machines, etc.. Sure it wouldn't find anything that would not be found or understood by physics, but it still would have a good value for us.

That is why I never bothered using WM2D or 'like' simulation programs. Your not going to find the answer stored in already known input of physics.

IMO more can be learned from "hands on" approach that may or can lead to unforeseen accidents revealing that which we seek. I admit that simulating a design before an actual build may save some time. But it's not going to tell you if something may happen that it is not programed to recognize.

Ralph

[daanopperman]

LIB ,
it is a great idea and I would support it , but unlike Mendeleev ..............????

[John Collins]

Ralph, said, "Just this morning I was awaken by a phone call from a person calling himself "Glenn" from Michigan who was interested in gravity wheel designs and when asked, stated that he had never heard of esslerWheel.com"

On the face of it your caller might have been my old correspondent Glenn *. I don't want to give his full name in case he either wishes to retain his anonymity - or it wasn't him. If it was the real one he certainly knows of Besslerwheel forum and many of us oldies too. He will be more familiar to many as Al Bacon and an excellent source of information about Bessler.

JC

[rlortie]

John,

Yes, as you know I also am aware of Glenn * (Al Bacon) from Michigan and have corresponded with him. He is a great one for snail mailing lengthy letters!

He came to mind when I asked the gentleman 'who am I talking to, but this Glenn was on a diverse tangent and referred to some ancient sect "Lights in the Sky" or something to that effect.

I gave him instructions to join this forum, so if we get a new member shortly we will know if it's the same 'Glenn' or not.

Ralph

[murilo]

Then, what you mean, is that 99% of the posts on besslerwheel are useless.. And I agree, that's why I simply disappeared and came back frustrated.

Btw, I don't see the problem with nicknames.. This is the internet, I guess we should simply accept that this forum is never going to be a place where people respect each other and where ideas are shared.

In face of this poor and not exactly surprising confession, I tell to you and all others that when/if a nicknamed doesn't respect an open named he's getting absolutely coward!

Also, I need to tell you that YESSSSSS... there are some serious guys here and many want/would/will change mean stuffs around! The name of the game is responsibility and compassion... for sure, hard to be understood!

Wooooooosshhhh... 8\
Murilo - still here!