Poll related to: "Big Troubles Brewing For The Theoretical Physics Smart-set"

[ovyyus]

Everyone thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong. The lunatics have taken over the asylum.
The fundamentals aren't needed here!

More like needed but not wanted.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Ovyyus,

Then correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that orbiting planets are working against a straight line pull of Centrifugal Forces so there is not just the forces of Gravity at work, there are other forces at work here, and CF has to be pull against, the planets are not getting a free lunch!
With respect Trevor

[rlortie]

During my in depth research of the most highly acclaimed mathematicians regarding fluid dynamics I find they leave us with the statement: "It is assumed that fluid dynamics does not break any laws of conservation".

Could I see those links please?

Over a hundred here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_dynamics

Do a Google search on the following names

Scientists

Bernoulli, Boyle, Cauchy, Charles, Euler, Gay-Lussac, Hooke, Pascal, Newton, Navier and Stokes. Solve the equation and win big time!

Fluid Mechanics and assumptions found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_mechanics

Assumptions
Balance for some integrated fluid quantity in a control volume enclosed by a control surface.

Like any mathematical model of the real world, fluid mechanics makes some basic assumptions about the materials being studied. These assumptions are turned into equations that must be satisfied if the assumptions are to be held true.

For example, consider a fluid in three dimensions. The assumption that mass is conserved means that for any fixed control volume (for example a sphere) – enclosed by a control surface – the rate of change of the mass contained is equal to the rate at which mass is passing from outside to inside through the surface, minus the rate at which mass is passing the other way, from inside to outside. (A special case would be when the mass inside and the mass outside remain constant). This can be turned into an equation in integral form over the control volume.[1]

Fluid mechanics assumes that every fluid obeys the following:

Conservation of mass
Conservation of energy
Conservation of momentum

[jim_mich]

No Trevor, centrifugal force balanced against gravity is the only forces holding the planets in their orbits.

[ovyyus]

Trevor, my guess is that if you wanted to grasp the physics then you would have sought to understand the standard definitions by now. I doubt anything I say will make much difference to you because you seem satisfied by your own creative processes.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Boys,

no work done then, Wow Billion of years with no work done that unbelievable!!!

To think that if you pull against something then there is no work being done, sorry boys it is still unbelievable!!

With kind regards Trevor

Edit, I envy you guys for having everything in a neat little package, I will have to spend the rest of my day in the search for what is really going on!

[ovyyus]

Trevor, it might come as an unbelievable surprise to you but the standard definition of work is: Work = Force x displacement.

I guess you now need to figure out what displacement means.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Ovyyus,

is that like the tides? Edit, Wherein there are billons of ton of water displaced by the pull of Gravity, and yet you boys still say there is no work being done, that is a collosal weight height shift, so god knows what it is doing to fluid magna below the surface of the planet, I have some thought on what is happening down there and am not at all surprised it’s a little bit warm, and you boys still say there is no work being done by gravity this is happening all over the universe, and still you boys say there is no work being done.

with kind regards Trevor

[jim_mich]

Like I said,

You can lead an ignorant to knowledge, but you cannot force him understand.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Jim,

Excuse my ignorance, but you guy have just told me that there is perpetual motion caused by gravity without work being done, and then you keep saying perpetual motion is impossible! So are the planets in a perpetual motion state or not? and better still do they do it without a energy input?
With kind regards Trevor

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi all, is this true?

In physics, a force is said to do work when it acts on a body so that there is a displacement of the point of application, however small, in the direction of the force. Thus a force does work when it results in movement.

Regards Trevor

[Grimer]

...it is only a unfounded assumption that it [gravity] is a conservative force...

Unfounded assumption? Trevor, statements like this show how little you regard or grasp the long history and enormous effort put into understanding the physics of this subject. It boggles my mind how some people can claim that a thing is wrong without any indication that they understand the argument.

I had a short conversation with a shop keeper the other day about the patch of warm weather we've been having of late. He claimed that global warming is a crock of shit and that scientists are either stupid or they're trying to secure scare tactic grants funding. I asked what his expertise was in the field given his strong conviction on the matter. He said he didn't have any, but god was in charge, not man. Like talking to the Taliban. Duh.

He may not have been right about global warming but he was certainly right about God being in charge. Good for him.

[Grimer]

During my in depth research of the most highly acclaimed mathematicians regarding fluid dynamics I find they leave us with the statement: "It is assumed that fluid dynamics does not break any laws of conservation".

Could I see those links please?

Over a hundred here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_dynamics

Do a Google search on the following names

Scientists

Bernoulli, Boyle, Cauchy, Charles, Euler, Gay-Lussac, Hooke, Pascal, Newton, Navier and Stokes. Solve the equation and win big time!

Fluid Mechanics and assumptions found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_mechanics

Assumptions
Balance for some integrated fluid quantity in a control volume enclosed by a control surface.

Like any mathematical model of the real world, fluid mechanics makes some basic assumptions about the materials being studied. These assumptions are turned into equations that must be satisfied if the assumptions are to be held true.

For example, consider a fluid in three dimensions. The assumption that mass is conserved means that for any fixed control volume (for example a sphere) – enclosed by a control surface – the rate of change of the mass contained is equal to the rate at which mass is passing from outside to inside through the surface, minus the rate at which mass is passing the other way, from inside to outside. (A special case would be when the mass inside and the mass outside remain constant). This can be turned into an equation in integral form over the control volume.[1]

Fluid mechanics assumes that every fluid obeys the following:

Conservation of mass
Conservation of energy
Conservation of momentum

Well said Ralph.

I remember my hydraulics lecturer referring to "brute force and ignorance" in relation to the theory.

[Tarsier79]

jim_mich wrote:

You can lead an ignorant to knowledge, but you cannot force him understand.

I love it.
My wife is a teacher, and she agrees

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Jim, Ovyyus, eccentrically 1,

Gravity is not a Conservative Force, so it looks like I will nip into the garage and build a gravity powered wheel as there is nothing to stop me, lets face it will be quicker than finding the truth from all the theory’s out there. One gravity wheel will prove once and for all that gravity is not a conservative force.

Thank for the insight of you knowledge base� it was fun� we must do it again some time!
With kind regards Trevor