Poll related to: "Big Troubles Brewing For The Theoretical Physics Smart-set"

[rlortie]

Exact laws

A partial listing of conservation laws that are said to be exact laws[/b], or more precisely have never been shown to be violated:

Conservation of mass-energy
Conservation of linear momentum
Conservation of angular momentum
Conservation of electric charge
Conservation of color charge
Conservation of weak isospin
Conservation of probability
CPT symmetry (combining charge, parity and time conjugation)
Lorentz symmetry

There is a first time for everything, including the discovery of a property that conflicts with the above statement.

The machine design that I am building at a slow pace, does not employ, Cf, or angular momentum. It is a semi-hermetically sealed device that relies on the conservation of linear momentum within a confined area. A confined area where conserved momentum is just that "conserved"...

It utilizes an outside force called "gravity" which I am told here does not make it a machine of Ectopic properties, yet one cannot deny that gravity effects all irrelevant as to whether it is inside or outside of a confined area.

If my calculations and predictions bare fruit, it is the ultimate use of the "Lazy eight"

Infinity (symbol: ∞) refers to something without any limit, and is a concept relevant in a number of fields, predominantly mathematics and physics. The English word infinity derives from Latin infinitas, which can be translated as "unboundedness", itself derived from the Greek word apeiros, meaning "endless"

Why was this symbol invented if it has no meaning?

"For those that believe gravity is not conservative. Perhaps you could advise us which part is not conservative?"

For those who believe gravity is conservative, perhaps you could advise using objective proof, other than the usual rhetoric (a pretentious) belief that "it is impossible because it has never been done" or "the math dictates other wise. There are to many things in this world today that were once stated to be "impossible", that linage of events need not end here!

As previously stated; It is a double edge sword, at present their is no solid, concrete or objective proof for those on either side of this debate.

It appears (as always) the job of finding a conclusion lies with the perpetualist, the naysayers in their attempt to deliver a heavy crushing blow, are content to rely on their unfounded beliefs.

Ralph

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Kaine,

Action speaks louder than words, this year I will build as much as I can.

I have to many projects on the go to say which will come home first, but it is more like a Gravity wheel will be done first as I have all the parts laying around, there is always going to be leverage but maybe not levers in the true sense of the word, so I would say a weight path, but not as seen in the MT drawings.

I will not be spending much time here as like you pointed out, the arguments keep going around and around, there are to many points of view with no defined answers, proof in the only thing that counts.

With respect Trevor

[rlortie]

Wubbly ,

Nothing in space is not moving. But if a planet wasn't moving, then there would be no fly-by assist; no energy to drain, so you are right, the satellite would exit the other side of the planet with the same amount of energy.

Sorry but I disagree, rotating, revolving or static, a planet has gravity relative to its mass. It is the gravitational mass that offers fly-by assist. Linear or rotational movement has nothing to do with gravity or Pe of a mass.

If the alleged dead planet did not have gravity it would be pulled to dust in the vacuum of space.

Ralph

[ovyyus]

It is the gravitational mass that offers fly-by assist...

But gravity is not the energy source. It is momentum transfer. Gravity is just the 'rope' that connects the two bodies. Just like with David's slingshot the energy transfer is from one body (David) to another body (stone) via the rope. The rope contributes no energy in the exchange.

[Tarsier79]

For those who believe gravity is conservative, perhaps you could advise using objective proof, other than the usual rhetoric (a pretentious) belief that "it is impossible because it has never been done" or "the math dictates other wise.

LOL

As previously stated; It is a double edge sword, at present their is no solid, concrete or objective proof for those on either side of this debate.

How would you like someone to prove to you that gravity is conservative without maths.

I have proven with math on a number of "overbalance" designs using simple geometric maths that the torque on one side of on OB wheel = torque on the other side over 360 degrees of movement.

I have also proved to myself with experiment that the force of rotation in a wheel over distance = PE lost. (That experiment needed measurement, and math to confirm.) How much PE is lost over a complete cycle of any resetting OB wheel? A: none. Therefor overall torque = none.

There is "Proof" everywhere, including easily accessed proofs on the internet. All it takes is for you to understand the concept and the relationship of these proofs.


jim_mich wrote:

You can lead an ignorant to knowledge, but you cannot force him to understand.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Kaine,
To be honest I think you are confusing the geometry with gravity and the way the forces are displaced on a wheel, this is bad mechanics not a conservative force, there are ways and means to reduce the effect of the drop in height so the wheels efficiency becomes greater than the temporary lose in Height, I would assume that in 180 degree the height would be reinstated. The loss of height does not happen in some of my designs A to B is built in at the start.
I can tell you more when my patent is filed, but do not confuse crap designs out come with the input force, the force is there to be used you only have to design the right mechanics to tap it.
With respect Trevor

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Everyone thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong.
The lunatics have taken over the asylum.
The fundamentals aren't needed here!

The fundamentals aren't needed here! This is very true! you keep getting the energy laws shoved in your face and Newton's law constantly quoted, yet if bessler had shown the workings of his wheel at that time then Newtons Law and the energy laws would have not been the same, this should be a place to bring out of the box thinking without fear of showing ignorance of stuff that should not have even been there.
The physics as we know them could of been very different to day if Bessler had been paid.

Regards Trevor

[rlortie]

How would you like someone to prove to you that gravity is conservative without maths.

I would love that very much, but doubt i will live long enough to see all the variable solutions used up!

I have proven with math on a number of "overbalance" designs using simple geometric maths that the torque on one side of on OB wheel = torque on the other side over 360 degrees of movement.

IMO your almost right, I found that your required spent torque on the ascent is more than the descent, it is an uphill grade against and not with gravity

I have also proved to myself with experiment that the force of rotation in a wheel over distance = PE lost. (That experiment needed measurement, and math to confirm.) How much PE is lost over a complete cycle of any resetting OB wheel? A: none. Therefor overall torque = none.

Empirical experience would have proven or shown that, without the bells and whistles of math, your fallacy is in the word "resetting"

There is "Proof" everywhere, including easily accessed proofs on the internet. All it takes is for you to understand the concept and the relationship of these proofs.

To date the only solid proof is; no man, mathematician, scientist or perpetual motionist has discovered that which the eyewitnesses of Bessler's machine could not deny or negate.

Jim_mich wrote:
Quote:
You can lead an ignorant to knowledge, but you cannot force him to understand.

You can lead a highly educated man with extraordinary high IQ to that which he is learned to be impossible and he will claim to not understand or disavow it.

William kenrick:

"The truth is, that the public in general, and even men of science, conceiving the subject unworthy attention, have not sufficiently considered the nature of it, to determine with certainty any thing about it...

"It is indeed generally supposed , and as confidently affirmed , that the mathematicians have published demonstrations of the impossibility of perpetual motion. But I can safely take upon me to affirm that , no such demonstration was ever published by any"

"Synthesis..." Copyright 2012 Al Bacon

Ralph

[Tarsier79]

wasn't Kenrick a fraud?

Ralph, I believe you are missing the important parts of my statements. It doesn't really matter. IF you do find a mechanical means to perform reset, Im confident it won't be due to gravity, leverage and weight position alone, but through some peculiarity of nature.

BTW, I have done a fair few geometric mathematical analysis, when you assume a perfect movement without loss, then the difference on both torques are very close to 0.

Anyway, I don't think I have any more to add to this particular argument.

[John Collins]

Kenrick wasn't a fraud, although he was an alcoholic. He genuinely believed Bessler and, after Bessler's death, even went to see the room in the castle at Kassel and examined the holes left in the floor and ceiling which the pillars were fixed to.

He gathered much of the information we use today including the letters from Fischer von Elach and 'sGravesand to Newton and Desaguliers. He died awaiting for the results of his patent application for a perpetual motion machine. He also gave lectures on the subject although the last one which was supposed to reveal the secret was never given because he died beforte he gave it.

JC

[murilo]

Everyone thinks they are right and everyone else is wrong.
The lunatics have taken over the asylum.
The fundamentals aren't needed here!

The fundamentals aren't needed here! This is very true! you keep getting the energy laws shoved in your face and Newton's law constantly quoted, yet if bessler had shown the workings of his wheel at that time then Newtons Law and the energy laws would have not been the same, this should be a place to bring out of the box thinking without fear of showing ignorance of stuff that should not have even been there.
The physics as we know them could of been very different to day if Bessler had been paid.

Regards Trevor

Trevor,
you are angry and I like this! 8(((
I'm very sorry if you lost our 2013 carnival!
Our good girls surplus is now much increased... 8))

For the while, an experiment: you can invite a 'fundamental' to a pub...

There, put 1 liter beer hold by EACH of his two hands, and make him wait 10 minutes, just holding.

After this while, before any drink, ask him to appreciate on his own arms to how conservative is 'g'... 8[[[

If he doesn't like beer, send him 2 cachaça or even water bottles!

Have a nice work and keep concentration!
M

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Oi Murilo,

É bom ter um grande irmão e amigo que está olhando para fora, para mim, ainda mais quando ele é tão sábio como você, eu não estou com raiva apenas cansado, não vou estar escrevendo muito em Roda Bessler, pois é hora de construir , quando eu conseguir algum tempo eu vou montar um modelo simples de as alterações no seu Avalanchedrive vou colocar um pedaço de corrente no lado duplo vínculo e se mover apenas 25 milímetros, em seguida, que vai provar que funciona em seguida, levante a cadeia de reposição se 25mm e assim por diante, vai levar algum tempo antes que eu possa fazer isso, porque eu estou trabalhando longas horas, e tem quatro outros projetos em movimento, mas não se esqueça que eu vou fazer isso em tempo e enviar o vídeo para ver com o que você quero.

Mãe recusou o aquecimento aqui, isso faz-me desejar que eu poderia vir para o de carnaval para ver o sol e todas as belas mulheres que se deslocam para a música, e beber um pouco de cerveja gelada, tenho saudades do Brasil este ano e ter certeza de que vou voltar assim que eu puder, talvez venha para o carnaval seguinte.
Sinta-se livre para e-mail me se o que conversar!
Obrigado Murilo! Com muito respeito Trevor

[jim_mich]

Hi Murilo,

It's good to have a big brother and friend who is looking out for me, especially when he is as wise as you, I'm not angry just tired, I will not be writing much in Bessler wheel, it is time to build, when I get some time I'll build a simple model of the changes in your Avalanchedrive'll put a piece of double bond in the side chain and move only 25 millimeters, then it will prove that it works then lift the chain replacement is 25mm and so on, will take some time before I can do that, because I'm working long hours, and has four other projects on the go but do not forget that I'll do it in time and send the video to see with what you want.

Mother refused warming here, it makes me wish I could come to the carnival to see the sun and all the beautiful women who move to the music, and drink some cold beer, I miss Brazil this year and be sure that I will come back so I can maybe come to the carnival next.
Feel free to email me if you talk!
Thanks Murilo! With much respect Trevor

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi all,

This is what I sent, you can see the problem there is for members here that use the Translators, and why there are miss understandings!

Hi Murilo,
It is good to have a big brother and friend who is looking out for me, even more so when he is as wise as you, I am not angry just tired, I will not be writing much on Bessler Wheel as it is time to build, when I can get some time I will put together a simple model of the changes to your Avalanchedrive I will put a length of chain on the double link side and if it move just 25mm then that will prove it works then lift the spare chain up 25mm and so on, it will be some time before I can do this because I am working long hours, and have 4 other projects on the go, but be sure I will do this in time and send you the video to do with what you want.

Mother has turned down the heating here, this makes me wish I could of come to the carnival to see the sun and all the beautiful ladies moving to the music, and drink some cool beer, I have been missing Brazil this year and be sure that I will return as soon as I can, maybe come to the next carnival.
Feel free to email me if you what to chat!
Thank you Murilo! With very much respect Trevor

Regards Trevor

[murilo]

Trevor, be my guest!
Thanx!
Take your time.
I'm sorry for the weather we can see on TV! 8\
Don't forget that in avalanchedrive it's the proper CHAIN that contracts and expands in order to form opposite different weights and potentials!
Those fit girls complain if you are not here... 8)
Our druid blood level need some enforcement! 8)
Esquindo... esquindo... 80
TC!
M