Bessler's wheel as a 'gift' to mankind.

[rlortie]

A am with Jim_Mich on this! Patent no matter what you do with it. If you do not patent, then you can bet your sweet bippy, that Siemons, GE, or some other like corporation will.

You cannot free source something you have already given the rights away to. Remember, the first to patent gets the golden global award, not the inventor.

I also agree that if the inventor gave it away he would gain immediate worldwide attention, but unfortunately it would be for the biggest buffoon in history.

Ralph

[Furcurequs]

I still like my idea for a legal pyramid scheme. After securing a patent, I would probably try to offer non-exclusive manufacturing rights to multiple worldwide corporations with the stipulation that they could all also compete with one another to improve upon the design as long as they offered up their improvements for manufacture by multiple corporations also. That way I make royalties off of every device sold for 20 years and every manufacturer can profit off of manufacturing and selling the best design out there, and the designers with the best improvements could have their own additional royalty streams for themselves. Win, win, win.

...and I could afford to hire people to administer everything and give whatever I don't need away.

Jim_mich, I don't know if I've asked you this, but since you often recommend that one "patent it yourself" book, would you really try to file the patent on something as important as this yourself? I'm sure the book has some valuable information that would be nice to know and I probably should get it, but I also would want an entire law firm (or two) full of patent attorneys looking over my own patent application should the time come that I actually had something working.

Dwayne

[mickegg]

Hi all

The road to obtaining a patent still runs the enormous risk of confiscation and obliteration by the powers that be.

If your idea is ultimately to release it, then as Bill says, get straight to the point and remove this risk.

The patent system is way past it's sell by date.

I believe it now exists to give Authorities first grab!


BTW Ralph,

"Free sourcing is a joke"??..................I believe you are using Firefox browser aren't you? <Grin>


Regards

Mick

[MegaWheel]

I wouldn't patent anything if I had a working wheel. I would simply make a video of me explaining how the wheel worked (with a working one in plain view) and upload it to as many websites as possible.

This would ensure that not only would mankind get the info on how to get free energy, but also get you the credit for inventing it. You wouldn't be able to not make money - with appearance fees, magazine articles fees, sponsorships and of course donations of any kind. People will donate money whether you asked for it or not! :)

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi all,
You do know that a Bessler Wheel would not be cost efficient at todays energy prices, if I was 100% sure that a gravity wheel was possible then I would go on record with some of the possible designs and argue my case, while working to make a energy efficient cost effective device, and work to build and prove it, and then worry about what to do with it when I have total proof that it is there, it works, and is ready to be used!

There are devices out there in full sight that if built correctly would work!

Regards Trevor

[preoccupied]

Mass tax evasion, Jim? haha that's great

If I controlled free energy patent I would charge as much for it as possible and want to be taxed as much as possible as long as it is the customers who foot the bill. I would not share free energy to as many people as possible over the internet if I discovered it because it might have military applications and thus need to be classified. I definitely would go to the government with a normal patent to see if it would be rejected for being a possible government secret or weapon.

[rlortie]

Trever wrote:

You do know that a Bessler Wheel would not be cost efficient at today's energy prices,

I disagree, any device that produces a surplus of energy will eventually pay for itself. Some take longer than others.

My first example is hydro-electric: McNary Dam on the Columbia river was built with 14 80 megawatt GE generators, the dam was built by bonds issued by the US treasury. It took 52 years to pay off those bonds.

Once paid in full, did the consumer see a drop in their power bill? No they did not, the surplus is now dumped into building wind mills, when and if the wind blows. During spring run-off, the hydro-electric dams fulfill the grids needs, By law the windmill owners collect on the power that they could have produced and didn't. For them it is a win-win situation. That is to say, build a gravity energized wheel, and you will get paid for not producing power, if the grid is peaked.

Second example is Solar power, estimate actual costs, true costs, incentive payments, tax credits, and Federal investment tax credits. One example illustrated the actual costs for a solar electric system for a business totaled near $256,000. After tax credits, an Energy Trust incentive, accelerated depreciation, the net system cost would be $18,000 for the business owner with an expected payback of seven years.

Questions and challenges abound: What size project is feasible, estimating from $1.75 to $2 million for each megawatt of generating capacity? What is the actual production for a given"installed" capacity? For wind power this is usually about one third) Are pre-determined purchase prices for electricity sold to the grid attractive to investors? Are small projects less (less than 20 megawatts) attractive to investors? What fraction of project costs are covered by Business Energy Tax credits?
Once the on-paper estimates look good, will supplies for a generated source of electricity, will be delivered on time to catch current publicly supported incentive programs? Should a private entrepreneur invest alone? Or should the land owner lease a suitable site through an extremely intricate "energy contract"---including a likely non-disclosure clause?

It is concluded if an individual's temperament is that of an entrepreneur, then meeting these challenges directly may lead to a productive use of energy source on an otherwise"unproductive site.

Ralph

[preoccupied]

Way to strategize rlortie! You seem ready for a working model. Do you know something we don't?

[triplock]

Hello All,

i simply cannot understand those people who want to free source, or patent then give away for a gift back, or to patent, then give away for free.

All this utopic talk of giving away to mankind is absolute bilge and mis-guided. You will be steam-rollered by big corporations immediately, your name will just be a footnote on the 'also-ran' list, and it will be listed under the sub-heading 'idiot'.

Chris

[rlortie]

I do not know what you know or do not know. Nor am I aware of what strategy you will pursue if and when you invent a cost effective machine.

If you are attempting a build based on Bessler's writings then I feel very pessimistic that you will ever succeed.

I do not know if my present build will be the answer, I am however very optimistic about it, making sure that my strategic path to follow is well planned in advance.

I have attempted to keep abreast of what State and Federal agencies have to offer and where to look for grants, Tax Credits and Laws that bind utility companies to excepting your power source whether they wish to or not, providing it is clean energy. If the Federally controlled grid does not need your power. then you get paid for not producing it. First you must prove the capability to produce said power.

Have you ever viewed a wind farm and seen only two or three windmills turning while maybe twelve are not? If the demand is low and the grid is overloaded, then those non-turning windmills are still making money. The consumer is charged for the non-produced energy. Believe me it is the law!

Ralph

[Jim Williams]

As I look around at all our DNA based kindred, I see people's place within life on this planet and consider; while Bessler's wheel could be a gift to mankind, even if it is not, it would always be a gift of mankind to all life.

[jim_mich]

Have you ever viewed a wind farm and seen only two or three windmills turning while maybe twelve are not? If the demand is low and the grid is overloaded, then those non-turning windmills are still making money. The consumer is charged for the non-produced energy. Believe me it is the law!

Oh what corruption has come to our once proud free country, where government forces payments for NOT generating electricity.

[rlortie]

An excerpt from http://nawindpower.com/e107_plugins/con ... TOhdTfCsfo

Still work to be done
Despite these measures, wind energy generators are disappointed with BPA’s actions. The Renewable Northwest Project (RNP), a coalition that represents wind power generators in the matter, maintains that BPA’s decision to curtail wind power is a violation of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission’s (FERC) open-access transmission policy.

“Given a full year to plan ahead, we are disappointed that BPA is choosing to curtail wind energy, despite more equitable solutions within reach,� says Rachel Shimshak, executive director of RNP. “This practice wastes clean and affordable energy while power plants continue to burn coal around the region. BPA’s dismissal of FERC’s open-access transmission policy - that all generators should be treated equitably - undermines the long-term policy certainty necessary to attract continued investment in renewable energy in the Northwest.�

Although RNP recognizes BPA’s efforts in trying to resolve the issue, the coalition is advocating for other methods of doing so, such as a non-treaty storage agreement with Canada, an irrigation-pump aquifer recharging pilot and the sale of hydropower in advance of oversupply events.

“While these are positive steps in the right direction, they are not currently being deployed at a sufficient scale,� Shimshak says.

Shimshak recommends that BPA work to power down the nuclear plant for refueling each spring, collaborate with fish experts on additional responsible spill, and pay the prevailing market price, which sometimes goes negative and is a common practice in most electricity markets across the country.

This was written before the Courts ordered BPA and the US Army Corps of Engineers to pay wind power producers when their demand was not needed. The fault lies with BPA's contractual agreement to purchase the power and made no amends or clauses limiting payment when not required or called for.

We, the consumer received notification by mail that this charge would be past on to us in the form of higher power rates. And then you wonder why I hate windmills.

Ralph

[Furcurequs]

Hey Jims,

Last week I watched the documentary The Last Mountain which tells of some people in an Appalachian community in West Virginia who are trying to stop the "mountaintop removal" coal mining of the last mountain in their area. It was truly disturbing to watch for me since I live in the foothills of the Appalachian mountains myself.

If I'm not mistaken, this is one of the oldest (if not the oldest) mountain ranges in the world with one of the oldest ecosystems, also, and yet these coal mining folks just go in and strip off all the trees from the mountains and then literally blow up and scrape off hundreds of feet of what they call "overburden" to get to but small layers of coal. They just totally destroy and pollute an environment that has developed over countless thousands of years for just a tiny bit of fuel.

I don't live far from the Cherokee National Forest and so have spent many hours hiking there while enjoying the natural beauty. If I'm not mistaken it's even illegal to carry out things like just small plants or rocks without special permits or whatever to protect the (treasure of) the natural environment. Some, of course, do get permits to haul out some already downed trees for firewood.

...but anyway...

What these coal companies are doing just seems insane.

The movie also talks about the community's research into putting in windmills instead, and how just installing those on the normally windy mountaintop would actually be much more economically productive, anyway, even in the short term.

I'd recommend the movie, even if some of it may be sickening to watch (for someone who cares).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Mountain

http://thelastmountainmovie.com/

Dwayne

Edited to change "West Virginity" to "West Virginia". I knew I should have hit the "preview" before the "submit".

[rlortie]

If interested here is another link regarding payment for no production. Our gravity or inertial Cf designs need not work, all you have to do is hook them up to the grid when your power is not required. :-)

http://www.nawindpower.com/e107_plugins ... TOuGDfCsfo