:No Subject (Archive purposes only)

[Gill Simo]

This post is for the records only, for the archive.
Few will read it if any & none will see any reason to act upon it.
I however see reason to have it stored away here, rather than in mortal flesh fast decaying.
As such then I have no reason to return to this post, nor quite possibly this site other than to update a debunk having built & discovered the concept untrue or to offer yet another for the archive..
There wouldn't likely be any replies anyhow but in fairness I should point out that any dialog attached to this post therefore would be purely amongst yourselves.


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To whom it may concern;


No diagrams. Draw/think/build for yourselves based on the simple instructions outlined below.
Instant problem....you will see no merit, no reason, for doing this because you believe PM to be impossible, other than the PM that you are going to find that is.
There is no reason for not marveling at the following. Investigate, question & you will see that it ticks every box....it is but then surely can't be, Bessler's wheel.


Take a disc, lets say 15cm dia for convenience and a further disc of 10cm therefore, the idea being that two of the smaller discs inside the one larger would form a Vesica Piscis.
Fix the one smaller disc to the larger at the appropriate point (5cm in, in this case) & such that it can rotate.
Place the larger on an axle at its centre but not through.
At the circumference of the smaller fix a pin, so that one were able to give this smaller disc a twirl against the larger.

Place a second larger disc on an axle.
This disc has a single groove cut from it, from rim towards centre although there must still be a rim....the groove is closed at the rim. Its length is equal to the radius of the smaller disc (5cm).
Bring the two larger discs together so that the pin on the one side rests in the groove of the other.

You will really need to do this, even if only in the simplest of fashion because it's just too difficult to explain what results in terms of movement. It is fascinating & worthy of the attention of any a serious PM seeker.
If you really cant be bothered, til you get to the end of this likely nonsense at least, then I'll attempt an explanation of a simple movement.

Hold the large disc with the smaller attached at 12 o' clock. Tut....already it starts!

Hold the large disc such that the smaller attached is directly above the main axle line, itself with its pin at 12 o'clock.
The other larger disc has of course, its groove also straight up, at 12 O'clock, with the pin in that groove, at the rim.

If you hold this larger disc, with smaller attached, in situ, whilst turning the smaller, then its pin will drive the other large disc around via its groove.
The pin will move through 180 degree of its small disc to sit directly beneath the main axle. The grooved disc is also driven through 180 degree.....but the pin now sits not at the rim where it sat originally but in towards the centre.....in turning then the pin has traveled along the length of the groove from rim in towards the centre.
Draw it at least & you'll soon enough get it.

Clearly, in holding the larger disc in situ, then the motion of the pin is purely circular...a half circle here.
However, there is an option....by holding the grooved disc in situ instead.

Now the pin moves straight down the stationary groove towards the centre, 12 O'clock all the while....& the larger disc that, that pin is ultimately connected to, turns through 180 degree. This is a simple flail, whereby toggling the pin back & forth turns a wheel.
In practice, it's a mixture of both options, as gravity attempts its stuff ...& the actual resultant movement of the pin is unpredictable because the action between the two larger disc is variable & unknown. Holding one & observing the other & visa versa doesn't predict what occurs under gravity when both are let loose to turn.
But make this we toy & playing with it will reveal fascinating possibilities. You will, for certain, notice the patterns associated with the Vesica, whichever way you attempt to operate.

Still, this toy isn't gonna turn of course....so here's how to make it turn.......

Take two further large discs & as before attach a smaller to each complete with pin.
Both discs have, in addition, the same groove as before & this groove sits 120 degree around from the attached smaller disc.
There is no provision for any axle at the centres of the larger discs....for there can be no main axle.

You now have seven discs, three small, four large, only two on the main axle.
Bring the thing together. As before... but with the additional two larger/two smaller units between.
Fix each pin in its only too obvious groove.

Looking head on, along the main axle then the three grooves will be 120 degrees equally around but the pins will not be equal distance from the axle....& nor will they ever have similar plans for their very next move.

Each pin, one followed by another, spirals/accelerates into/out from the main axle...yin yang style....Savonius style.
Note that this device is very likely uni-directional. I know not why because I'm no more aware of the true principle involved than any of you's, nor indeed Bessler himself.....but this device starts with a pin at one end & ends with a groove at the other & it kinda stands to reason that this would need to be designed out by simply adding the reverse so that one operates in one direction, one the other.

Now, this is all very well in theory but in practice not so.
In practice a flail needs play....think steam engine, otherwise things get nasty at either end/start of travel, each switch in direction back & forth.

In truth Bessler grasped onto PM but it wasn't the be all & end all of a grasp.
The correct grasp involves the employ of 3D consideration of movement & the Vesica Piscis.
Bessler, like me, like this offered....'tis 2D. "Tis harsh enough to imagine it 2D.
3D could come only from studying the 2D carefully, although here we have a very lucky break...a tatty old bowl in the Cairo Museum that folk 5'000 years ago used to pass the chutneys around.

The 2D version is a compromise & it's noisy as a result along with hopelessly inefficient in terms of the true potential of this principle movement.
Besslers attempt & this, represent the Sinclair Scientific whilst the Cairo Bowl the iPhone 5.
The above plods along under gravity, making a big bloody fuss about it as it goes. The Cairo Bowl works under magnetism & whilst it most certainly won't make any fuss, we most certainly will.

The compromise of 2D is to have to change the slots for triangles in order to inject the required play in this flail.
Where the required prime movement is attempted in 2D then it leaves a rattle in the works.
In 3D this rattle, what Bessler referred to as an integral & necessary requirement, is addressed.

In 2D each groove is now replaced by a triangle, as shown in Bessler's engraving. Seen head on, along the axle, it is Bessler's engraving. Each pin now has the ability to move within a triangle instead of being trapped straight up/down within a groove.
The pin is loose within the triangle at all times bar when it is fully in towards the centre.
As a result this bearing has play, in that whatever the actual interaction is, between discs with discs & discs with slots....it now has play back & forth between them.

A shagged bearing hammering away as such but still, a shagged bearing like no other shagged bearing.

What we have here is three pins trying to settle around two points, themselves around one point...& the three pins never wanna attempt to work together. You can see these pins as the weights & indeed they could be. It can equally be the two larger discs inside, acting upon the pins. Make them heavy, make them bigger, either fatter or greater in diameter. Bessler has used the latter it appears, hence the large, thin drum, fatter towards the centre.

I should point out that Bessler most likely employed beams rather than discs resulting in quite some display, same as but different to the disc's.
Get to grips with this and you will come to see that there are infinite variants that can be applied to the principle.
It is the principle of the Vesica Piscis & we are all, already well aware that when it comes to shape & form, then the whole of Creation can flow from the Vesica Piscis.
Bessler I'm sure would have spotted the obvious variant...& confirmed it.
Simply set the angle of the slot (now triangle) quoted above as 120 degree from its attached smaller disc, to 90 degree. Add a further large disc with small attached, groove again 90 degree around. Slap it together & you have two pins spiraling in as two spiral out....about as yin yang & Savonius as it gets.


Take a look, a serious but open minded look, at the Norway Spiral on Youtube. And the many likewise appearing across the globe.
Now someone/something, somewhere close by, has stolen a march on us all...that's heavy duty understanding of both the clicker clacker toy this numpty is trying to present & it's frightening potential.

I've learnt the principle here the hard way, like most all of you's. Yet still I spring forth with theories knowing that ultimately there must be a fall & once again I've stupidly volunteered to be internet world fool of the week.
I know you only want to see it bloody well working before you'll ever deem the above & all the effort it takes just to read the damn thing, never mind understand it, never mind thinking about it, as worthwhile.

Of course...it's impossible like I said.

But think on I beg of you's.

Like me you will have soaked up every possible clue left by Bessler & others.
Bar difference in design creating different observations, where does it not fit those clues?
It can't possibly be because ...what?

This concept fits even the clues that you too eagerly dismiss in the protection of your sanity.

JC in his book makes mention of the quote re the secrets of kings & councilors & the secrets or workings of God.
john places it into context and ponders....What is the significance, what could he be trying to say here?
Each & every one of you have followed in his footsteps, bar the oddball here or there that you immediately placed off-topic, warned & ultimately banned.

What he meant was exactly what he said. His secret was a secret of Nature....of God.
A vital clue, that's definitely required on board in order to ever be able to narrow this thing down.
Like...."So, it's not then akin to some novel design for more efficiently sucking shyte up off the carpet"

You refused to believe what the man said? He made a simple bold statement which in your distrust & disbelief you deemed insane.
People that claim to know of God are nutters aren't they? So say the people seeking PM? That's well twisted folks.

Look again at what's on offer. It's no mechanical trick over current understanding of machines.
Well, s'pose there's an argument for that...but you get the point hopefully....it's a different principle, not just by design but by nature.

It's no big deal to grasp at the end of the day....Spirals do magic stuff that we've only ever thought to dream of.

The secret to this magic is the Vesica Piscis, the Yin Yang, the Servonius....as folk once knew and very gainfully employed....not to mention worship. Folk that is, including Bessler.

Footnote: I created a very basic & somewhat rough animation of just two weights displaying the prime movement.
Hopefully you can grab them here and re-animate or just click through any photo viewer at your own pace.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=b10c8ded ... D3A8%21129

Or just as well dance away to it here as such

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYk6w98s5LU

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Thank you if you've just taken the time to read the above.
I assume I am now dead, having never had the time to build the above or else long since proven myself & the contents of this post to be without sense.
If the former be the case then I pray that you'll been sufficiently intrigued/enlightened enough to act upon the above that you've happened to stumble upon here. God Bless all.

GillSimo
Glastonbury
March 2013

[murilo]

Gil Simo,
hello!
Your texts are not 100% easy to be understood, but be sure that for me you are truly a respectable rich soul, mind and personality!
Best regards!
Murilo

[greendoor]

This is a very interesting post and I hope it provokes some serious discussion. Vortexes are very interesting indeed. Viktor Schauberger's Vortex Engine springs to mind - perhaps this is a mechanical model of his fluid motor? Very similar is the Richard Chlem engine (http://www.keelynet.com/energy/clem1.htm) which would appear to run on the same principle.

Perhaps related is the principle that Werner Von Braun discovered 50 years ago when his calculations for the position of Explorer 1 were an epic fail. As Bruce Depalma also found - a spinning mass such as a ball or rocket takes considerably less energy to accelerate than conventional physics can explain. This seems to be related to the effect discovered by Harold Aspden - an electric motor driving a flywheel is measurable easier to start up and accelerate if started up shortly after previous operation (after thermal factors etc are factored out).

I don't believe these effects will be understood until people embrace the concept of Aether (or pick your prefered name for whatever pure spacetime really is). I like to think of mass as being waveforms within the incredibly strong fabric of space - space is NOT an empty vacuum (you can't wave something that doesn't exist). As such, mass and aether are completely entrained/intertwined (something Michelson Morley failed to consider when they wrote off the aether). So if we spin or rotate a mass, we are spinning/rotating the aether. Once spinning - it appears to DO stuff that affects the material world ...

Please don't allow these thoughts to derail this thread - please respect this important post. I just want to give this concept my 100% approval and hope it leads to something worthwhile.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Gill,

first and foremost I hope I find you very much alive and well, and hope you stay that way for as long as you can! The problem being that with spirals and the use of gravity there is a spiral down to the lowest point of the device, then it slowly stops once the chaos is played out.

I hope you keep up your good work, I have seen your work in the achieve here, of which our thoughts have some times shared the same path, as it has been said by Ralph “forget Bessler’s clues� and follow your instincts.

With much respect, Trevor

[Andyb]

Hi greendoor , i liked it that you mentioned Victors work i feel he has something to add to this research,Bessler said as they spin on there vortices Victor research in to shape specifically the space curve is where i believe the answer to this wheel will come .He amazed me Victor i was so smiten with observations that i decided to check some of them out for myself one was the Pike and its ability to accelerate to 90 mph in a 1\4 of a second just by twisting its body in to the shape of the space curve quite something to witness when i saw it i really started to get what he was so passionate about as for some of his other work well what can i say he is the man ,oh sorry to ramble but i had to share this one day i was walking down a river bank and i noticed groups of flies spiraling over points in the river where it was rounded out in the bank and the water was spinning i sat and thought for a while and then approached the flies then i placed my hand underneath them and the group squadron broke up remove hand flies go back to normal spiraling away after a while i got to the point of being able to brake up flies with just two or three mm of movement from my finger in and out it was most distinct the way the flies move i found it interesting hope you did to .



Gill do a sketch please my brain does not want to work all this out, sorry to be one of the thickos her but i need some visuals a rough sketch would be cool if you could be so kind, im sure you have something well worth sharing thank you Andy

[Gill Simo]

Back to eat my words so to speak!

Just felt rude not to thank those above for their support/encouragement.
I certainly do not consider anyone as `thick` or the like for not understanding the above suggestion...it's obvious that I've reached possible conclusions by joining dots & as I alone travelled the paths that do so then I wouldn't/couldn't expect others to see such connections.
I'm sure I would struggle likewise.
However, I'd ask you again to consider those dots.

Bessler's wheel engraving, with taunt beneath is a riddle & it would be a mighty cruel riddle at that if Bessler had placed it as a dead ended one.....a solution to the impossible is surely difficult enough without your man leading all along false avenues?
As already explained, this engraving can be very simply recreated, to scale, using a coin or any other circle, a straight edge & a pen/pencil, for it is derived from the Vesica Piscis......fact.
As is the Cairo flower bowl....fact.
Bessler was building a Savonius windmill & that geometric form is simply 50% of a Vesica Piscis....fact.
The Vesica itself was considered the most Holy of spaces by the ancients, (the folk that built/designed the flower bowl & who evidently performed acts that we can still only wonder at) as being the Source/Creator.....fact.

Whilst accepting that others will be unable to grasp the above device/action/principle, I of course can & I can confirm that it fits with ALL of the below, kindly posted previously by some kind soul.....

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"all the inmost parts, and the perpetual-motion structures, retain the power of free movement, as I've been saying since 1712.
"a work of this kind of craftsmanship has, at its basis of motion, many separate pieces of lead. These come in pairs, such that as one of them takes up an outer position, the other takes up a position nearer the axle. Later, they swap places, and so they go on and on changing places all the time."
"anyone who wants can go on about the wonderful doings of these weights, alternately gravitating to the center and climbing back up again, for I can't put the matter more clearly."

"A great craftsman would be that man who can 'lightly' cause a heavy weight to fly upwards! Who can make a pound-weight rise as 4 ounces fall, or 4 pounds rise as 16 ounces fall. If he can sort that out, the motion will perpetuate itself. But if he can't, then his hard work shall be all in vain."

"He can rack his brains and work his fingers to the bones with all sorts of ingenious ideas about adding extra weights here and there. The only result would be that his wheel will get heavier and heavier - it would run longer if it were empty!"

"Have you ever seen a crowd of starlings squabbling angrily over the crumbs on a stationary mill-wheel? That's what it would be like for such a fellow and his invention, as I know only too well from my own recent experience!"

"Many would-be Mobile-makers think that if they can arrange for some of the weights to be a little more distant from the center than the others, then the thing will surely revolve. A few years ago, I learned all about this the hard way. And then the truth of the old proverb came home to be that one has to learn through bitter experience."

"by making the true claim - that no weights hang from the axle of my wheel."

"design has, in fact, progressed to the point where there is nothing supercritical about the exact disposition of the weights - an ounce more or less, here or there, makes not a scrap of difference to the Wheel, which will hold its course serenely without 'turning a hair'."

"Ask any of those who have groped inside my Wheel and grasped its axle" - "Rather, it has many compartments, and is pierced all over with various holes."

"one pound can cause the raising of more than one pound." - "What if I were to teach the proper method of mechanical application? Then people would say: 'Now I understand!'"

"If I arrange to have just one cross-bar in my machine, it revolves very slowly, just as if it can hardly turn itself at all, but, on the contrary, when I arrange several bars, pulleys and weights, the machine can revolve much faster"

"I don't want to go into the details here of how suddenly the excess weight is caused to rise. You can't comprehend these matters, or see how true craftsmanship can rise above innate lowly tendencies (as does a weight above the point of application of a lever)"

"If one weight is giving an upward impetus, another one, at the same time, is giving an equal downward one."

"you'll soon find, you splendid mechanics, that this is a nut you can't crack!"

"It must, simply put, just revolve, without being wound-up, through the principle of 'excess weight'"

"it runs according to 'preponderance', and turns everything else along with it; as long as its materials shall endure, it will revolve of its own accord."

"On one side it is heavy and full; on the other empty and light, just as it should be."

"All the wise ones were looking for the same principle (of 'excess weight') that I have described, and they sought it in things that were already familiar to them."

"They sought to bring a wheel into a state of motion, such that, without the need for winding, its innate virtue would keep it revolving as long as its materials might last."

"by all intelligent people, who, with true understanding, have sought the Mobile in a place no different from that in which I eventually found it."
"The bolts which regulated the motion were screwed into and out of the axle by many people, for I allowed all my friends to operate it."

Someone said: "had to be a cat instead, as shown by the scratching noise coming from inside! Yet others said that, no, it was all to do with mercury perhaps?"

"there's always the danger that a surreptitious shove would knock it out of balance and bring it grinding to a halt."

"I constructed my great work, the 6-ell diameter wheel. It revolved in either direction, but caused me a few headaches before I got the mechanism properly adjusted."

"reached the stage now where even a poor workman could put the thing together without a lot of head-scratching; and get it completed almost before you could notice"

"The clattering noise you refer to is, I assure you, a phenomenon caused directly by the real motive power of the machine, and nothing else."

Note: The Draschwitz machine did not create a similar noise because it worked on quite different principles.

"I make my machines in such a way that, big or small, I can make the resulting power small or big as I choose. I can get the power to a perfectly calculated degree, multiplied up even as much as fourfold."

"In a true Perpetuum Mobile everything must, necessarily, go round together. There can be nothing involved in it which remains stationary on the axle."

"The wheel's own inner force must come into being, without external momentum being applied".

"He who wishes to make it in this world must often be prepared to use a combination of lateral thinking and initiative!"

"but what I didn't know then, and indeed have only recently discovered, is that there were obstacles in our way. We were, you might say, unprepared and therefore still far from the truth."

"I discovered how a man can climb higher on Jacob's ladder, and learn to shun all superstition."

"Soon I began to grind out a book full of all sorts of things, including designs for rotating wheels. These incorporated various devices and pulleys that had occurred to me from time to time, including the notion that a flow of mercury could enable a wheel to rotate."

"spit turning", "power continuously to rotate, like a clock that could wind itself up", "took note of its skillful construction"

"For the vision of the roasting-spit would not leave my mind. I thought it might be possible, on mechanical principles, to devise a better machine".

"For I put together the very first device which could spontaneously revolve a little. I saw that I had finally made the right choice, and why the earlier ones had been wrong. My heart leapt for joy at the sight of this genuine Mobile."

"So it was at the house of Richters in the year 1712 I achieved the discovery of the wondrous device that has amazed the world so much. My industry was spared the curses which accompanied the earlier efforts. The machine stood 3 feed high," - "On unfastening a bolt, the wheel immediately began to revolve."

"If something went wrong with my machine, I'd mend it by poking around through a tiny hole, to prevent anyone seeing inside."

"I'll tell you with great pride that my timbers are all solid. There's also no trickery going on behind that hole - it's just for inspection purposes."

When revealed, you will hear the wretches say: - "Just look at the thing properly, and you'll see that there isn't much artistry to it"

"The internal structure of the wheel is designed in such a way that weights applied in accordance with the laws of Perpetual Motion, work, once a small impressed force has caused the commencement of movement, to perpetuate the said movement and cause the rotation to continue indefinitely"

"For this concept, my 'principle of excess weight'" ... "these weights are themselves the PM device, the 'essential constituent parts' which must of necessity continue to exercise their motive force (derived from the PM principle) indefinitely - so long as they keep away from the centre of gravity."

"they are enclosed in a structure or framework, and co-ordinated in such a way that not only are they prevented from attaining their desired equilibrium or 'point of rest', but they must for ever seek it, thereby developing an impressive velocity which is proportional to their mass and to the dimensions of their housing."

"a machine made up of material, therefore heavy, substances and parts, assembled in such a fashion that once it has received an externally-given motive force will never lose it but will continue endlessly without interruption to retain that motion."

"the motive force, the ability to move itself and drive other objects makes up the FORM of the device" ... The "essence"

"as an example of the ideas I am discussing, consider the case of two small metal spheres, one of iron and one of lead. For both of them, their FORM consists in their regular sphericity. But we find that placed in a furnace, one loses its shape quicker than the other. Therefore the greater or lesser "meltability" of such spheres is not the result of "sphericalness" - common to both - but of the physical characteristics of the two materials. And it is this "material accident" which is the FORMAL CAUSE of the difference."

"The case is no different from that of a leaden or even waxen sphere. They are both as perfectly deserving of the description "sphere" as is an iron one, despite the fact that the latter will withstand fire and other attacks better than the two former. For form give the essence of the thing."

"then set it in motion - it is essentially a roughly 6 ell diameter wheel, about a foot in width. He did this with little difficulty, moving it by hand until a single weight inside it was heard to begin falling; it then began to rotate of its own accord with such a force that within a minute it had rotated 40 and more times, and could only be stopped by applying great effort."

"The inventor also caused the wheel to rotate in the reverse direction"

"the pressure of two fingers" ... "pressure was applied until the moment when a single one of the weights present inside the body of the device began to fall. The machine then gradually began, of its own accord, to revolve faster and faster."

""the arrangement has been designed in such a way that the rotational movement of the entire vertically suspended wheel can be slightly modified by the application on each side of small weights"

"since the motive force of the device, which at the moment is only that of a small working model, can be multiplied to an almost infinite degree through combination. Further advantage can be obtained by working the device in conjunction with ordinary machines, and altogether there is no load or burden too great for the machine to face if the working arrangements are properly set up."

"now present for all to see, the principle of Perpetual Motion. For no burden or resistance is so great that, other things being equal, the P.M. principle cannot overcome it, since it is capable of having its effect multiplied indefinitely."

"possess the principle of motion internally"

"firstly, I shall relate the cause of FIRE, and then the nature and operation of it; secondly, the properties of other ELEMENTS; and, thirdly, the nature of COLD, the cause of perpetual Motion, the essence of the Sun, and the reason for the movements of the Sky, Moon, Sea and Earth; finally, the causes of the ebb and flow of the Tides, Thunder, Lightning, Rainstorms, Winds, and the reasons why all these things grow and multiply. In this manner I shall be able to show to others the pathway I myself discovered, after many errors, and which will enable them to bring to light, with little difficulty, even more wonderful things."

"have discovered these things solely by assiduous observation and through scrutiny of the elements."

"for you have granted to them above all others the ability to discover and demonstrate the true character of things, of your great and wondrous creations, according to their differing amounts, dimensions and weights, propensities and properties."

"For instance, those of the radiant heavenly bodies, which proclaim Your honour. And of those wonderful motive forces which demonstrate your ceaseless, ever-present power. Of the composition, whose perfection in itself proves that of the providential Hand behind it, not only of the Universe as a whole, but of those constituent bodies which make it up."

"Of the ways, which proclaim Your Holy Truth, in which these bodies can be analyzed, and of many other wonderful things of which You have appointed them stewards."

"Your wisdom and the riches of Your goodness, present in the forces of Nature, should be sought with child-like respect, found with an enlightened heart, and applied and put to practical use with pure joyful gratitude."

"Give to them" ... "an understanding of Your principle, vouchsafed to me alone, of eternal mechanical motion, and how to apply it in countless good and useful ways."

"for You are the Beginning and the End of all things."

"My script is a young shoot grafted on to the tree of perpetual motion with a true understanding of the elements; an insight into the nature of things which will enable investigators to reach a lasting store of knowledge in their quest to understand the marvels of nature, and the possibilities opened up to us by this gift."

"For experience teaches us that there is no pleasure equal to that given by a true understanding of nature, since this alone reveals to us GOD's perfect goodness, wisdom and power."

"I believe that even those who are not ignorant, should they attempt to use pure REASON alone to achieve their ends will, all of them, suffer from the same noted madness, and that thus their great chance of fame will be missed. "


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Should you doubt this then please feel free to question me re any particular statement & I'll explain exactly how it fits....a bold claim but one in which I can be entirely confident.
I would gladly attempt to offer diagrams, even though I'm singularly hopeless at creating them on a pc & have no means of drawing these freehand & scanning them into a pc.
If someone could offer me a total idiots guide as to precisely how I place any such diagrams into a post here then I'll happily give it a try, bearing in mind please that it'd need to be a set of diagrams, as many as a dozen, in order to have any hope of stepping you's through what is nethertheless a shockingly simple process.

Be well one & all.
Gill

[justsomeone]

Hi Gill, how many weights does your design have? Are you using a light weight falling one quarter to lift a heavy weight four quarters high? Are you building a pop model? Thanks

[jim_mich]

Many of these clues come from the 43 chapter of AP. While preparing this quote for posting, I think I might have found something interesting. I've made bold Gill's quotes from AP. And I made red one sentence, which I think is a question rather than a statement. And I noticed that it is one of the sentences that is followed by an '&' sign. My thoughts are that maybe the '&' means that the sentence is to be considered a question. I took a quick look at some other instances, and often they too could be questions. Did Bessler mean for all instances of &'s to be questions? Or maybe its more subtle, but along the same line of thinking, that these sentences have certain questioning significance. This will require more investigation, which I don't have time to look into right now.. Just thought I'd make a quick mention of it.

XLIII.
Are there any more doubting lions roaring around? Then let them come and sit down by me, and my wheel shall openly revolve for them. I've nothing to hide, for all the inmost parts, and the perpetual-motion structures, retain the power of free movement, as I've been saying since 1712. I'd like, at this point, to give a brief description of it. So then, a work of this kind of craftsmanship has, as its basis of motion, many separate pieces of lead. These come in pairs, such that, as one of them takes up an outer position, the other takes up a position nearer the axle. Later, they swap places, and so they go on and on changing places all the time. (This principle is in fact the one that Wagner said he owed to me - but I was quite wrongly implicated, as I'd never informed anyone about the matter.) At present, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who wants can go on about the wonderful doings of these weights, alternately gravitating to the centre and climbing back up again, for I can't put the matter more clearly.

But I would just like to add this friendly little note of caution:- A great craftsman would be that man who can "lightly" cause a heavy weight to fly upwards! Who can make a pound-weight rise as 4 ounces fall, or 4 pounds rise as 16 ounces fall. If he can sort that out, the motion will perpetuate itself. But if he can't, then his hard work shall be all in vain. He can rack his brains and work his fingers to the bones with all sorts of ingenious ideas about adding extra weights here and there. The only result will be that his wheel will get heavier and heavier - it would run longer if it were empty! Have you ever seen a crowd of starlings squabbling angrily over the crumbs on a stationary mill-wheel? That's what it would be like for such a fellow and his invention, as I know only too well from my own recent experience!

I also think it's a good thing to be completely clear about one further point. Many would-be Mobile-makers think that if they can arrange for some of the weights to be a little more distant from the centre than the others, then the thing will surely revolve. A few years ago I learned all about this the hard way. And then the truth of the old proverb came home to me that one has to learn through bitter experience. There's a lot more to matters of mechanics than I've revealed to date, but since there's no urgent need involved, I'll refrain from giving more information at the moment.

Note that any discussion of the &'s should maybe be started in a different thread other than this one.
A note to newbies, we have had discussions of the &'s before. Since search words need to be at least 3 letters long, do a search for: NB's

Peace!

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi all,

With no mention of distance then leverage would fit! Gravity can provide the distance of fall, but then comes the problem of the reset!

There has never been a problem with Gravitys work input, only the reset, thus most of my work has been to make the reset as efficient as possible, this is where answers maybe found IMHO.

Regards Trevor

[rlortie]

Taking one excerpt at a time, I wish to focus on the following:

(This principle is in fact the one that Wagner said he owed to me - but I was quite wrongly implicated, as I'd never informed anyone about the matter.) At present, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who wants can go on about the wonderful doings of these weights, alternately gravitating to the centre and climbing back up again, for I can't put the matter more clearly.

First he states that he was wrongly implicated and as far as he is concerned, anyone who wishes to go on with the idea that the weights alternately gravitating to the center/centre and climbing back up again can do so. There is no affirmation that his machine operated in this manner.

This is followed with: I can't put the matter more clearly.

So this is an assumed implication, not a statement that his design did any of this. He allows any one who wishes to go on with the Idea to do so.

He cannot make the matter more clearly without divulging the true method of his wheels operation. There is nothing here implied that states: this is how my design works.

So here we have the first and foremost question, did his machine actually operate with that which we have been assuming for so many years. Or have we once more been lead astray, by his cunning use of words.

Good post Jim, makes for more insight and thought.

Ralph

[rlortie]

Next excerpt:

A great craftsman would be that man who can "lightly" cause a heavy weight to fly upwards! Who can make a pound-weight rise as 4 ounces fall, or 4 pounds rise as 16 ounces fall. If he can sort that out, the motion will perpetuate itself. But if he can't, then his hard work shall be all in vain.

No where to my recollection have i ever found anything stating or leading to confirmation that Bessler achieved this. He is not implying that he is a/the great craftsman who achieved raising 4 pounds as 16" fall. We are lead into another assumption!

Ralph

[rlortie]

Third excerpt:

Many would-be Mobile-makers think that if they can arrange for some of the weights to be a little more distant from the centre than the others, then the thing will surely revolve. A few years ago I learned all about this the hard way. And then the truth of the old proverb came home to me that one has to learn through bitter experience.

This can be taken as either a contradiction or confirmation of the first excerpt. First it is weights moving in and out. Here he states he learned the hard way that it will not work. Speculation leads one to assume the true answer lies somewhere in between.

Ralph

[Ed]

Ralph, what ever happened to Tinker's dam? Couldn't you just harness that?

[rlortie]

Tinker: "To make aimless experimental at repair, to fiddle".

Seems to fit the bill Ed, I have to agree. But you will have to explain to me as to how it should be harnessed, in front or behind. I admit that for to many years I seemed to be behind, pushing on limp reins.

While I have your attention, may I ask the age of the picture with you and Al? I have uncovered some historical data I plan on sending him for his next publication. IIRC he said he would have it ready by the end of May.

Ralph

[Ed]

Maybe that should have been damn. :-)

According to the data in the image, it was taken on December 27th, 2009 at about 3pm. That sounds about right. It was taken in Traverse City, MI where we both reside...sometimes.