Bessler's wheel as a 'gift' to mankind.

[ovyyus]

That's one way to get your post count up :D

[The Turninator]

Dwylbtzl, your original 8 word Biblical quote was of little consequence. I often simply ignore such Bible quotes. But the following 548 words in the two postings by Turninator, which were pure Bible Thumping, really pissed me off.

This in my thread that I starting, and I'm offended by such postings that lend nothing to the original subject of this thread.

Many years ago today, a college classmate told another classmate something of great wisdom.

"It is better to be pissed off than to be pissed ON."

If you want to discuss A Gift To Mankind then you do not have to waste time ranting to D... or Turninator.

All you have to do is start writing about A Gift To Mankind.

What will you do when somebody teaches you to turn the wheel and steps back and lets YOU claim to be the inventor and claim the $200 Trillion US?

Will you use your vast funds to starve the hungry, rip clothing off the nearly naked, take houses away from householders?

[The Turninator]

OK! so it is time to get back on topic. Bessler's wheel as a 'gift' to mankind.

If it's true that we are here to help others, then what exactly are
the others here for?

I do not believe in giving anything away, those who receive without earning will not appreciate what they did not have to work for. All they will expect is more. I do not bother to pass on helpful hints unless it is to someone who has earned my respect, which is not hard to do.

This is Jim_Mich's thread, he can relate to my exothermic story as we have discussed it before, I give it as an example of Boyle's Law related to entropy, enthalpy and fluid dynamics involving exothermic machines.

Dwylbtzle

If you wish to pitch a bitch, start a "Bitch" thread in Off-Topic, I will gladly meet you there!

Ralph

So, Ralph, if I do present a way to turn a wheel to humanity in circumstances whereby every human has a passport out of poverty, but YOU have not guessed how to turn a wheel, I have earned the results of my wheel as a Gift To Mankind but you have not.

So are you jiggy wif having your same old income and non-wealthy style of life while all the rest of humanity begins to enjoy unlimited prosperity?

A simple YES or NO will satisfy the thread's title I guess.

[The Turninator]

No religious argument was ever won with words. It is a game of brute force.

FWIW, I largely agree with your assessment of the possibility of owning a radical patent.

I truly believe if you try to patent it the greed heads will have you in a New York minute. No good can come of it.

In my opinion you are totally right. And that is where the serious problem is.

An inventor who recognizes that there immense foes against the institution of a factor that would turn the status quo upside down and give prosperity to all of the poor also realizes that his life and well being are worthless if he makes a believable move.

But, if that same inventor has a keen sense of social responsibility he will have a great desire to give relief to the poor by trying to patent it and control it and give the fair income to the poor by charities.

Giving away the design is a safety net for the inventor. But it puts social responsibility upon the shoulders of others who will face the same attacks. The design will fall upon barren ground regardless of whether the inventor is persistent and is murdered, or whether some other philanthropist picks it up and is quickly murdered. Whether the inventor tries to use it or someone else tries to use it, it will be squelched and buried and forgotten.

It happened a few hundred years ago. It has happened many times since.

Giving it away is a cowardly cop out. I am a natural born instinctive coward. I deeply understand the attractiveness of giving it away.

[The Turninator]

If you are going to talk religion, then damn-it, start your own damn thread.

I don't give a crap about "fundies" and how they think about the Bible. I've been there, lived it, know all about it, don't have any need to discuss it here on this forum, on my thread.

If you want such a discussion, take it to off topic.

And if YOU want to talk about "A Gift To Mankind", Do It!

Quit ranting about somebody believing in God and start writing about "A Gift To Mankind"!

[The Turninator]

I don't see Armstrong as a good example at all. Most inventors are very poor business people. It is the business side of inventing that makes the money. You can invent the most wonderful perpetual motion wheel in the world, and then totally screw up trying to make money from it in the business world.

I started this thread as a way to look at an alternate business profile. With a normal business, an inventor collects royalty payment or he manufactures his invention. In either case, he loses a very high percent of income to taxes. I was exploring how one might operate under a different business profile where all of the inventor's gain from his invention would be in the form of gifts from grateful users of his invention. Such gifts might not be taxed. In either case, you need to assert your rights to your intellectual property as a first step.

It just irks me how much taxes the government takes (by force) from people. Why is it legal for the government to take your money by threatening force against you if you fail to pay up, while a street thug can be sent to prison for taking money by threatening force against you if you fail to pay up. Why is it legal in one case while illegal in the other case?

You should not have derailed your own thread by ranting on people who happen to have strong religeous beliefs.

A genuine free energy device will have a possible DIRECT value of $200 Trillion US. How much money could you spend on your own hedonistic pleasures during the next 15 or 20 years of your statistically maximum lifetime? One Million per year? How much dope, whores, Lamborghinis and whiskey can you do in 15 years?

What are you going to with the rest of the money if somebody teaches you how to turn the wheel?

[jim_mich]

How much dope, whores, Lamborghinis and whiskey can you do in 15 years?

What a warped sense of values you have. You're pathetic.
I already have enough money to buy all the dope, whores, Lamborghini s and whiskey that I might ever want to buy. I've never touched dope. I have no desire for dope. I've never been with a whore. My pick-up truck gets me from point 'A' to point 'B' just fine. I might buy another Buick or some nice car for long car trips, or maybe a motor home. I really do not like whiskey. Vodka with orange juice works just fine as a pain killer for the aches and pains of old age. It's more natural and safer than modern pain killing drugs.

Your sense of what rich people spend money on is sick. Most rich people spend excess money and often also their excess time helping other people. You seldom see it, for most of them do it quietly. Yes, there are the ass-holes who suddenly come into money and squander it on fast women, fast cars, and fast living, but they are more the exception.

I have enough money to live out the rest of my life. This thread was simply contemplating an alternate business method for a Bessler type wheel, a point that seems to have gone over your head.

Religious postings and then the rantings of an idiot are what derailed this thread. What happened, did your mommy finally let you back on the computer last night?

[murilo]

Mr Jim!!!
Wow!
How nice!
I guess you got here a true fan!

[Kirk]

No religious argument was ever won with words. It is a game of brute force.

FWIW, I largely agree with your assessment of the possibility of owning a radical patent.

I truly believe if you try to patent it the greed heads will have you in a New York minute. No good can come of it.

In my opinion you are totally right. And that is where the serious problem is.

An inventor who recognizes that there immense foes against the institution of a factor that would turn the status quo upside down and give prosperity to all of the poor also realizes that his life and well being are worthless if he makes a believable move.

But, if that same inventor has a keen sense of social responsibility he will have a great desire to give relief to the poor by trying to patent it and control it and give the fair income to the poor by charities.

Giving away the design is a safety net for the inventor. But it puts social responsibility upon the shoulders of others who will face the same attacks. The design will fall upon barren ground regardless of whether the inventor is persistent and is murdered, or whether some other philanthropist picks it up and is quickly murdered. Whether the inventor tries to use it or someone else tries to use it, it will be squelched and buried and forgotten.

It happened a few hundred years ago. It has happened many times since.

Giving it away is a cowardly cop out. I am a natural born instinctive coward. I deeply understand the attractiveness of giving it away.

Not true. When it is public domain it is open for any and all to use it. Giving it away is the rational choice.

[Dwylbtzle]

yes--it could easily be instantaneously, and irrevocably, given away
as i said....
ah but let's not be hasty, gentlemen---let's beta test it, first:

we equip a chimpanzee flamethrower battalion
put a communist or a scientologist or a pope or something in charge of it--secular humanist--atheist-=-SOME kinda religion
way out in the middle of a desert or jungle somewhere
let them do whatever they want
and see what happens

[ovyyus]

In the end it probably doesn't matter how an individual inventor might try to retain control of a very important idea. One man never controls much without being in debt to others.

Secret knowledge is the modus operandi of corporations, ruling houses and religious organizations. They will lie, cheat, steal, murder, change laws, and destroy whole nations in order to possess it. We know this already. So what chance would a man stand?

Open (universal) sharing prevents very important knowledge being acquired by the few at the expense of the many. It's good business for all!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source

In the early years of automobile development, a group of capital monopolists owned the rights to a 2-cycle gasoline engine patent originally filed by George B. Selden.[8] By controlling this patent, they were able to monopolize the industry and force car manufacturers to adhere to their demands, or risk a lawsuit. In 1911, independent automaker Henry Ford won a challenge to the Selden patent. The result was that the Selden patent became virtually worthless and a new association (which would eventually become the Motor Vehicle Manufacturers Association) was formed...

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Ovyyus,

Yep! but they needed oil so who was in the driving seat?

This thread only stands when someone has built a device that would be cost efficient, if not then it is just a interesting design that would rock physics for a bit, wherein the sceptics would say, yes but what use is it.

Poor old Bessler's timing was wrong, and his cost to much, steam engines came out to pump the coal mines, where just by luck they had a abundance of coal, and also a new up and coming market for coal, this new very powerful coal driven steam engine! Everyones a winner, well except Bessler that is.

With respect Trevor

[ovyyus]

Everyones a winner, well except Bessler that is.

Bessler profited from his wheel. He acquired money, notoriety, a good job, and powerful friends. Sounds like a winner to me.

[jim_mich]

But in the end, didn't Bessler lose his good job, end up in poverty working manual labor building a windmill, his powerful friends died off, and many people thinking him a fraud?

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Ovyyus,

Yes! Bessler was a winner in lots of ways, what would we give to see inside his wheel? but he lost out to Newton, and the steam engine, and did not get enough funds to live out his life in comfort, if someone paid his price he would not have fallen off the wind mill!

I was being cynical, not like me I know!

With respect, Trevor