At what stage do people turn from enthusiastic researcher to dogmatic crank?

[Dwylbtzle]

monsters from the id
in a noble site like this where we try to map the border between fantasy and fact
some people wander off into the fantasy land--or maybe it's real!?--and they turn into Malice in Underland, for some silly reason
ah well
the bigger the front
the bigger the back
no biggie

"But try to realize:
You'll probably be surprised
For it's a land unknown to man
Where fantasy is fact
So if you can please understand
You might not come back"
-Amboy Dukes, 1967

[ovyyus]

Bill, there is a difference between initial speculation to uncover a line of research, versus believing in something and then requiring no physical evidence to believe you are right. Speculation unproven builds a foundation for a house of cards. I know you know I know you know... :-)

Belief in something is not dependant on reason. You know I know you know I know :D

[Dwylbtzle]

i SUSPECTED it
about both of you
hehe

(you know...knowing that knowing that you both knew--i KNEW it!)

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Bill,

that depends, some beliefs are based on reason! but I do agree most are not!

With respect Trevor

[Fletcher]

"At what stage do people turn from enthusiastic researcher to dogmatic crank?"

When you're alone in your office with your thoughts & suddenly realize you're the smartest guy in the room.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Fletcher,

very True! I always work alone! but then you posted!!!

With respect Trevor

[Dwylbtzle]

i found this button, once...it said:
"This was a private hell till you walked in"

so i bought it, even though i had no idea what it was supposed to mean
it just hit me funny

like--wot? now i don't even get my hellish privacy?
hehe

[Wubbly]

"At what stage do people turn from enthusiastic researcher to dogmatic crank?"

When you finally realize the truth that Bessler was a fraud, and you just wasted years of your life believing something that isn't true, even though you still want to believe.

When your therapist keeps saying that you are making forward progress, even though you know otherwise.

When you finally realize that Bessler has been making fools of people for 300 years.

When you realize this forum is an experiment in human psychology, orchestrated by Scott, and that he's probably writing up his doctoral thesis right now.

[Kirk]

we have found a mechanism whereby a wheel may be built so it seems unlikely Bessler was a fraud.

[rlortie]

Wubbly wrote:

"When you finally realize that Bessler has been making fools of people for 300 years".

You know, I came to this conclusion, after many years attempting my own builds as well as analyzing many submitted designs. I no longer give a tinker's hoot! about what Bessler says. I stay clear of any debates that touches on what he wrote.

I still analyze designs, whether they are based on Bessler or from the minds of some pretty smart people that do not subscribe to this forum.

So; I hope because I believe Bessler has made fool of me for many years, and now realizing it is not the correct path, it has not made me a dogmatic crank.

There are other instances on this forum that set my blood percolating a lot easier than admitting IMO, I have been made a fool by Bessler.

Ralph

[rlortie]

we have found a mechanism whereby a wheel may be built so it seems unlikely Bessler was a fraud.

That's pretty strong words you are posting. You say "may be built" which means you have no object proof in hand for backing your statement.

Do not let euphoria get the best of you, as it has others in the past. Otherwise you will be the next member to find yourself in the bottom of the barrel.

On the other hand, I have not been there for a while, maybe it is my turn.

Ralph

[Dwylbtzle]

i never "believed" in bessler--just found him when i was exploring the
manufacture of damascene (damascus steel)--which lead to the guy who
made the first bowie knife for rezin bowie--clearly out of damascus steel
-when the knowledge was thought to be lost, and was lost, to the
western world--and he took that technique to his grave--like bessler-
-so they both ended up on "the top ten secrets taken to the grave" list

but i was willing to believe that he COULD have done it--because i think a
gravity engine can be built--i wouldn't have bothered with a wheel-
-but maybe he did--using the same principle--and i still have almost no
opinion as to whether he was a fraud
about fifty fifty to me still--because i "look outside the wheel"-
he may have been "cheating"--and still not been a fraud-
-because he got it to work--but not JUST with newton's help-
-he COULD have been tapping something quantumy

...or not

************************************************

no--no working model, yet, alas--and never claimed one-
-but i found this really piece-of-cake bank...
have to go panhandle long enough to buy the ski mask
but hey
i'm practically there

[Kirk]

an elastic collision with a lever and a large ball to propel a small one with the other side of the lever pencils easily. A 4 pound ball dropping 1 foot has an mv of 32. A 1 pound ball with an mv of 32 would rise 16 feet.

In practice the lever is not massless and spring rate dependent so you wont realize 4 to 1 as theoretical output. Half that is 2 to 1 which would be unity, mv of 16. 16fps rises 4 feet.

[Dwylbtzle]

see? you guys start using math--and i have to disturb ALL my poor
arthritic fingers to even count that high-

ouch


ouch!

[greendoor]

I think for some people it is a serious mental illness - an obsessive compulsive disorder. One particular poster creates a new thread every five minutes with a quirky title ... It floods this forum with useless information and dilutes any respect this forum might have.

From a conservative point of view, every participant here is a fruit loop loony tune who has taken leave of their senses. PM was disproved centuries ago, and we are still tilting at windmills ... wtf?

And yet, there are some of us here who genuinely believe that the Bessler story was historical fact and that there a yet to be discovered features of our universe that allow such a self-turning wheel to be physically possible. "Science" as we know it is constantly evolving, and every generation scoffs at previous generations for being ignorant - only to be scoffed at by the next generation for being ignorant, etc, etc, etc ... nothing much changes. Scientific "facts" are only the popular consensus opinions that have been memorized by repitition by the Pavlov dribbling dog effect ... peer pressure makes the condition complete, so we have many people who are just spurting out the same old tripe they have been fed since their formative years. Science requires more faith than religion - nobody has time to study each and every factioid for their original source credentials, so we just accept them by faith.

How many people quote "E = MC^2" without having a blind clue how this was derived or what assumptions it was based on. How many people are incensed by the thought that faster than light speed travel might be possible, based soley on the conditioning that they received at school, with zero proof. It's still a theory people ...

Good salespeople learn that human beings are not logical rational people. They are emotional beings who do what they do from a gut level, and then maybe try to rationalise their behaviour. What you are seeing in this forum is just basic human behaviour patterns ... don't look for logic.