Why you need an inertial thruster

[Ed]

Ever find out what made the numbers skiwonk yesterday?
Not sure what this elasticity ... lower the velocity for it to be zero.

As I understand it full transfer of momentum requires matching the masses. Not velocity dependent.

With elasticity set to 1 and all the masses the same, starting the cue ball at 80 in/sec caused it to rebound in the opposite direction after impact, with about -12 in/sec. I had to lower the elasticity to .67 in order for the cur ball to stop after the transfer, or in had to lower the velocity of the cur ball.

Either the simulator is screwed or there is something we are missing, and even though at times I want to through it out the window, I still have not because most often after studying the results I find it does increase me understanding.

I'll keep looking into it and let you know. I'll also try some other programs to cross check.

Obviously I could do this in reality, but I don't have a pool table handy and it is nice attach graphs to objects and see what is going on in detail and be able to slow things down for study. Plus at the end you have a diagram or even animation to show others. Obviously it needs to be correct to have value, but that is where comparing it to reality keeps it honest!

Thanks Ralph. I'm trying to get an apples to apples comparison to reality without making apple sauce. :-)

[Ed]

In order for a cue ball to transfer all of its velocity to the object ball, it must hit it straight-on. If the balls hit off-center, not only will the object ball move after impact, but the cue ball will continue to move—roughly at 90° to a line drawn through the centers of the two balls at the moment of impact.

I will make a few baseline examples to make sure things are behaving as expected and then go back to the Y arrangement.

[eccentrically1]

http://billiards.colostate.edu/technica ... TP_A-5.pdf

For reference; 6.741 degrees difference with inelasticity and friction on object ball angle.
"but in all cases, the actual angle between the ball paths will be less than 90 degrees".
And that's with two balls. 3 balls would have more of a difference.
Even in a perfect collision, the components use the vehicle to 'reset' for the next collision. I think the vessel would just oscillate back and forth.

[Kirk]

the step by step analysis shows what happens at reset.

[Kirk]

Ever find out what made the numbers skiwonk yesterday?
Not sure what this elasticity ... lower the velocity for it to be zero.

As I understand it full transfer of momentum requires matching the masses. Not velocity dependent.

With elasticity set to 1 and all the masses the same, starting the cue ball at 80 in/sec caused it to rebound in the opposite direction after impact, with about -12 in/sec. I had to lower the elasticity to .67 in order for the cur ball to stop after the transfer, or in had to lower the velocity of the cur ball.

Either the simulator is screwed or there is something we are missing, and even though at times I want to through it out the window, I still have not because most often after studying the results I find it does increase me understanding.

I'll keep looking into it and let you know. I'll also try some other programs to cross check.

Obviously I could do this in reality, but I don't have a pool table handy and it is nice attach graphs to objects and see what is going on in detail and be able to slow things down for study. Plus at the end you have a diagram or even animation to show others. Obviously it needs to be correct to have value, but that is where comparing it to reality keeps it honest!

Thanks Ralph. I'm trying to get an apples to apples comparison to reality without making apple sauce. :-)

You see why simulations are dangerous. You rely on them and assume they are correct. That's why I do the math myself and use integer values that make it easier.

[Ed]

Kirk, I would have thought it clear by my last post that I don't "rely on them and assume they are correct", but that's ok... I don't have to continue to post to this thread since you seem to have things under control...

[Kirk]

no, join in. I have an appointment tomorrow with a machinist to put a 1 inch radius on the face of my plunger (5/8 bolt). Balls are ordered and have magnet wire. I can hardly waitt.

[honza]

Kirk,
good to hear that you are progressing to the implementation and not getting demotivated by some of the responses.

[Ed]

What responses do you think are demotivating?

[honza]

An Inertial Thruster?
I need one?
Cool...I'm booked in to see my Doc tomorrow, I'll mention it.
Might be the cure I've so desperately been seeking recently.....cheers for that.

[Kirk]

When I saw the post I wondered why he was on a list like this one.

[primemignonite]

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MMNature is cruel, demanding and unforgiving of any that might seek to discover Her greatest of secrets. - JMM
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Kirk wrote: "As I understand it full transfer of momentum requires matching the masses. . . ."

As I understand it as well but, much more is to be considered.

Near-100% instantaneous transfer of momentum between near-perfectly inelastic bodies of identical mass cannot be effected.

Near-instantaneous: yes; so-absolutely: no.

As well as it might be done, a "thing" interceding is required to effect the tricky trick and it is special, being in all ways not common.

With this one case being a possible exception (depending), usually one learns of such things the hard way.

James

[Kirk]

James, perfect is only in the thought world. Hardened tool steel elasticity is around 99% of perfect. Good enough for me.

[primemignonite]

===============================================================================================
MMNature is cruel, demanding and unforgiving of any that might seek to discover Her greatest of secrets. - JMM
===============================================================================================

MMM"James, perfect is only in the thought world. . . ." - Kirk

Yes, it is so as you say; existing therein and in Heaven solely.

The balls of Newton's famous Cradle are that, very hard but, lose how much energy to heating and parts of acoustic watts as dissipated?

Those steely impacts are ones truly most violent.

Could their like have been one of those various of "things," as were utilized by our Johann? (Really?)

Was such a type of transfer occurring in Bessler's Wheels? (If conceived, a correct answer would self-assert, as in should.)

MMM". . . a "thing" interceding . . ." - J. M(i.e. an intercessor)

James

[Kirk]

James. second order effects are just that, second order.