Info clarification from John Collins

[grim]

Hi John

It's been quite a while. Hope you and yours are well.

Just a refresher question, please, if this is recalled correctly?


A) JB says he has depicted "pendulums that are modified as shown"?

B) He also mentions a "lower cylinder" as the "principle piece of the machine" that "resembles a grindstone"?

C) Wolff observed him "pulling down on an iron spring" that "made a loud noise as it expanded UPWARD"?

Thanks for your time in advance for this refresher.

grim

[John Collins]

Hello there Grim! Yes I'm fine thanks.

This is from memory but I'll check it tomorrow. My feeling is that you're quoting another translation.

a) Not too sure about the exact phrasing, I know he mentions them briefly.

b) I don't recall any 'lower cylinder' in my own translations

c) I don't think Wolff specifically says that it was a spring - just that it had the familiar sound of a spring being pulled. I'm not sure that I understand what that would sound like nor why it should sound 'familar'.

My own belief is that there are no springs in Bessler's wheels, at least not as a necessary part of the mechanism.

I'll try to confirm all this tomorrow.

Regards, John

[Michael]

John,

Can I just ask you why would you ignore the multiple clues of there being a spring system in J.B.'s wheels?

1. The sound; I'm sure your familiar with the sound of a spring on an aluminum door (storm door?) expanding, I sure am.
2. The quotes, a bow, jack fires, a shotgun shoots. These all mean a very fast action from stored potential.

Sincerely,

Michael

[Jonathan]

There is mention of modified pendula, and they are modified insofar as having crossbars. It is in the German text (written clearly in Latin), and my little translation just posted yesterday in this forum, but it is replaced by a reference to "small weights" in the English part of John's book, I don't know why. Those "small weights" may be the weights on the ends on the crossbar.
There is a "lower" in your translations John, on page 190. You have translated it though as "narrow" (so you preceded me and Stewart in that).
I don't know if Wolff says spring, but Bill's site says he says spring: "When he put the wheel onto another support and reinstalled the weights in their previous positions, he pushed down on an iron spring that gave a loud noise as it expanded upwards.".

[ken_behrendt]

I'm about 99+% sure that Bessler's wheels did use springs, but that he did not like to mention them because he did not want his critics to say that his wheels were powered by wound springs. I think he used spring tension to control the positions when weights were shifted.

ken

[Ryan]

Hi all,

I first discovered the Bessler Wheel mystery a few years ago, and needless to say, been thoroughly intrigued by it since then! I registered here recently in the hope I can share ideas with you guys in the future...(although nothing has worked so far!....:)). About the use of springs in the wheel.......I have a feeling I read somewhere, maybe in one of Mr Collins' books, that Bessler said springs weren't actually necessary, but he used them to make the machine run more effectively/efficiently than it would without springs. Is that right, or did I misconstrue something? If Bessler did imply that, then perhaps we're barking up the wrong tree with the springs ideas?

Regards,

Ryan

[John Collins]

Hi Ryan,

Bessler states several times in Apologia that springs are not necessary to the working of his wheel - here is one quote as an example "My Mobile is free of all such nonsense. Springs and weights of the kind he describes are not to be found in my machine!" I discussed this matter in my book and offered the suggestion that they might have been included in his machine to assist the smooth running of it. My own opinion is that springs are not a necessary part of the successful mechanism.

I agree with you Ken that they might have been used in other ways connected with positioning the weights.

Jonathan you're right with Bill's quote "When he put the wheel onto another support and reinstalled the weights in their previous positions, he pushed down on an iron spring that gave a loud noise as it expanded upwards". I had remembered it wrong -apologies!

Hi Michael,

I'm just going by the number of statement in Apologia where Bessler says that he doesn't use springs. I did a search for the words spring and in reference to their possible use he makes about 5 or six references to the contrary.

These are only my opinions and I could easily be wrong.

Regards to all, John Collins (call me John, I only use my full name in case some else has the same name as me i.e. John)

[ovyyus]

Hi John, I know we've talked about this before but in the interests of clarity... would it be fair to say that Bessler does not discount the use of springs in his wheel, rather he discounts their use as his detractors suggest (a fraudulent winding mechanism)?

[Techstuf]

How serendipitous....I see that Bill posted as I was writing the following:


Critical phrasing...."Of the kind he describes".


I see nothing wrong with trying to facilitate ideas and inspire the work of others. Why must one be branded a 'coward' for preferring to see that another might prevail in this 'arena'? Who here honestly doesn't know by now that higher (and lower) forces are at work in pivotal efforts such as this?

Regardless of our personal religious beliefs.....and we ALL have them in one form or another....there is ample evidence that those who hold temporary custodianship of the planet take their religion very seriously.


One would do well to try and ascertain the guiding influences in their lives.


Things are moving quickly now.....and prophecies are coming to pass as written.

Regarding the wheel.....regardless of whether the arms sliding over one another in the wheel were flexible, and stored energy like springs.....or they were rigid and used springs at their attatchment points.....or even did without them all together, instead relying on force integration of gravity and angular momentum alone.....the fact is,

The blinders are being removed and one of you, at least, may soon prove successful.

Take a look again at what is simply being conveyed in the PSD or (Porch Swing Dynamics) posts.

When that 'Eureka' moment takes place and also that which is sure to follow.....you will understand that what may appear to be one man who ran away....


Just may in fact be one man being simply transferred and promoted....


Choosing to worship the Creator instead of the created.


And as always,


Choose carefully that which you choose to learn.


YAH bless all gathered here in Yahshua, Jesus Christ

[ovyyus]

...honestly...

You should leave that one alone Mitch.

[John Collins]

Hi Bill,

I know we've talked about this before but in the interests of clarity... would it be fair to say that Bessler does not discount the use of springs in his wheel, rather he discounts their use as his detractors suggest (a fraudulent winding mechanism)?

Yes, I agree that he probably did use springs since he says somewhere that he does not use them in the way the questioner means. Sorry I haven't got the exact quote in front of me, but the implication that springs are present in his machines, is there.

John

[Techstuf]

My shame for revealing partial truths and walking a razor's edge with all the skill of a dullard.....and the accociative vestigial ego issues are, I feel, somewhat 'offset' by the importance of the material being conveyed.

Of course, the 'jury' is still out.....it would seem. Although the Judge is secure in his chamber.

Peace,

TS

[ovyyus]

Perhaps your associative vestigial ego issues can clear up these partial truths so that a poor judge might retire.

http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Gra ... rs/photos/

Or will you still fain default in the name of another?

[Techstuf]

Although we have already shared our private views and I my personal motivation in the matter......One could openly wonder about anyone's 'feigning' skills.

But life has a way of teaching a man by personal experience about his own feeble and transient moral ethos in a more compelling way than the consistent and obviously inspired words of another.

As I've said before, Man is a poor judge of motivations....often including his own.

One man's realism is often another's pallid subjectivity.....such disparity often arising from transference issues and goal orientation.

Certainly the record will speak for itself despite those self assumed interpreters whose attention to the details and their associative 'devils' will many times preclude a greater examination and comprehension of the larger consideration.

Certainly I, myself, have greater consequences of action to attend to than the well worn and, I assume, rightly motivated admonishments of one in your authoritative position.


GOD bless

[ovyyus]

So, to cut through the waffle... you think it's OK to deceive your neighbor if it suits the needs of you and/or your deity. Good stuff Mitch, glad you could finally clear that up. It does leave me feeling a bit wary and mistrustful though, how might you deceive next if it suits your master?

It would appear your associative vestigial ego issues are a little less vestigial than you might imagine.

FYI:

feign: To represent falsely; pretend

fain: Happily; gladly

Me thinks you thunk too badly of me - or was that just a Freudian slip? ;)