Opinions, please

[grim]

Concerning the particular drwg at the top right of the Discussion Board:

Did he draw the pendulum to scale, i.e., relationship of the T-bar lengths correct, etc., or did he pencil-whip it?

Thanks in advance,


grim

[rlortie]

Grim,

The pendulum depicted is one of my pet research items.

I do not believe that the logo represents true scale but possibly close. It is a wood cut drawing and in my mind should not be relied upon as a blueprint. The above depicts a celtic cross design that has adjustable linkage connected to a bell crank at the wheel axis. when the wheel is at rest or tied the pendulum is not plumb but "off vertical" and is in balance with the opposite pendulum on other side.
Whether the pendulum is driving the wheel or inner components is in question. I do not believe the wheel is intended to drive the pendulum except for a little nudge to maintain amplitude.

Where as there is another pendulum on the other side with its angle set opposite, neither pendulum will zero vertical or reach apex at the same time once set in motion. Reminds me of a two cylinder two cycle engine.

IMO this gives a continues application or allows some wheel interaction to take place 8 times per revolution, pushing or lifting weights for example.

The rod appears to be of solid length and not adjustable meaning that the pendulums are of predetermined amplitude. This in turn will control speed acting as a govoner. Adjustment or control is accomplished via the linkage.

I have not achieved any hypothesis for the weights shown at the ends of the cross bar. I do believe that they add inertial energy to assist in an inner action. I also do not rule out that these weights can be adjustable or possibly contain some sliding motion in turn moving balance of pendulum.

Ralph

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Grim,
the pendullum outside is not necessary for the run of the wheel.
The wheel also runs without the pendullum. The 'experts' on the board can tell you the page and book were this is written.

Next days i will post the cymbal weight solution to this board. It uses a T-pendullum inside.

the future has begun

Georg

[grim]

Hi Georg

Good to hear from you, it's been a long while.

You are correct, there was no external pendulums. I believe he is illustrating at least one internal part (pendulum and tensioner) and has left out one important internal part on purpose. The pendulums depicted are apparently for illustration of a principle only.

Regards,

grim

[grim]

Hi Ralph

Note on the drwg, the top left weight on the pendulum's "T" bar is twice the thickness of the right hand weight. Do you believe the relationship of the length of the top "T" bar to the vertical bar is in proportion (as a pendulum illustration only)?

Best Regards,

grim

[rlortie]

grim,

First we must be careful of any reference to the pendulums being on the outside of the wheel to minimize argumentive conjecture of others.

At a point I find relying on the these wood cuts for interpretation as disdainful as the current thread of depicting clues in the photographs of
Bessler and his poses.

There are as many discrepancies and contradictive conceptions here as in the text of John collins books.

Now to answer your descriptive questions of weights and cross bar to vertical rod length ratio.

The larger weight on the left "T" bar only shows up so defined on the right drawing of the Merseburg depiction. In using conjecture only, I would consider this is as away to assist in moving mass from left to right inside the wheel that was not moved right to left on the return swing. This right to left unbalance is negated by the also off balance produce by the opposite pendulum.

In supposition this description of action would keep the pendulums balanced while yet moving more mass in one direction than the other. If so the use of the lighter right weight shown would be of little significance.

As to the cross bar length, I have no other recourse without causing undue reaction to state: the cross bar is limited to the diameter of wheel and at which point it bisects the radius, therefore the cross bar is limited to its radius of swing for weight shifting by the length of its leash.

The vertical rod length as previously stated is designated by and for desired amplitude or timing, only here I must say, it is limited to wheel radius and vertical pivot point location within wheel.

If I could freely reference this as outside the wheel where I feel it belongs and the drawings imply, the mechanics would be simpler to define and augment.

[rlortie]

Grim,

For more info on my hypothesis of pendulums go to the following threads.

Community Buzz, page two, thread "New comer with questions" by rlortie.
Michaels Forum, (now open to all members) Page One, thread, "Pendulum, connecting rod and Journal" by rlortie.

Maybe this will be of some help and I am sure other members if so inclined can lead you to more related threads.

My recent computer crash caused loss of many links. Does anyone have the one to Evert pendulums handy.

Ralph

[scott]

Hi Ralph, there is a links page on this site that probably has what you need.
-Scott

[terry5732]

Did he draw the pendulum to scalegrim

Was it established that Bessler was the artist for these?

[rlortie]

Hi Ralph, there is a links page on this site that probably has what you need.
-Scott

Thanks Scott.

Frankly I feel rather stupid and must have had a brain F--t! for not thinking of this forum home page.

Sorry about that.

Ralph

[John Collins]

Was it established that Bessler was the artist for these?

Personally I have no doubt that Bessler drew these drawings Terry, but it is worth further consideration. There are aspects to the drawings which I haven't discussed with anyone so far because I'm still working on them, which lead me to believe he was the artist.

John

[ken_behrendt]

John...

Bessler was the artist, but who was the engraver? Surely Bessler did not make his own engravings too...I mean, I know he was a true jack of all trades, but he must have had some limits.

I think that a lot of his sketches may have had perspective and scale errors introduced into them by another person who had to interpret Bessler's sketches and diagrams. I also think that these little errors would have really annoyed a perfectionist like Bessler, but he may have gone along with them to save the time of having them redone and to purposely introduce some confusion into the diagrams to throw off any would-be "reverse" engineers in his reading audience.

ken

[Stewart]

Hi Ken

I've created a separate topic about the wheel images in "Community Buzz", as I didn't want to swamp this topic! Have a look there for some further information. I agree with John that the images were drawn by Bessler. I also think there is a strong possibility that Bessler did the copperplate engraving of the image in "Grundlicher Bericht" (GB): Bessler refers to copperplate engraving skills in AP, and at the bottom of the image it says "Made by Orffyre".

This copperplate engraving is definately the most accurately produced image of any of his wheels. The second version of this wheel image (Merseburg wheel) appears in DT and is printed from a woodcut. I think the images printed from the woodcuts shown in DT are less accurate and the woodcuts may well have been done by another person. I think you are right that this would have annoyed Bessler, but there is also a possibility that Bessler had a hand in the inaccurate drawing of some of the wheel parts. I spent some time playing with a configuration I arrived at after spotting a drawing error in one of the DT images. I will post about this later.

Regards,
Stewart

[ovyyus]

IMO, Bessler created his printing plates himself. While some artists create rough sketches of their intended work before committing to the plate, it is also common to just jump right in and engrave or carve the plate directly - it becomes the original.