Friendly Little Note

[Fletcher]

With his plan of course - it is a good plan - I look forward to the day when thoughts of Bessler & mechanisms & physics & math don't pop into my head every time I let my guard down ;7) - Jim will have done me a great service.

[Ed]

Understood and agreed!

Though, if I'm not mistaken, he's working out of order.

A] First get something that works!!!

Jim, you should have made it a list of bullet points. ;-)

[Dwylbtzle]

Those who point to magic and say it's an energy source can not demonstrate it.

artC clark said "any technology sufficiently beyond the grasp of an observer is indistiguishable from magic"

i only add that it is magic--and grasping it changes nothing
we like to separate our science from our magic
and any religion from our "secular reality"
hey they BETTER both be the same thing
or it's false religion and bogus pseudo science and black magic

now aliester crowley/type magick involved the agency of spirits (interdimensional sentient beings)
so sure--some spirits beat the crap outta someone once, in the new testament
so watch out
the only reason they don't do it to all of us more often is probably because WE have magic powers too
so if yer lazy and weak and gotta get a spirit to demonstrate an energy
then that's magic demonstrating an energy

now--quantum forces are magic and we demonstrate their energy every day

just sayin

back to quantum again
because no-one's looking there

i think TRUE PM is attempted magic with no spirit or correct technology
and thus a red herring
and unless God pulls a miracle for you because you prayed SO hard (which--hey--is possible i guess--but that's not science--that's a sovereign miracle-not repeatable in the lab)
don't work

but i could be wildly wrong
if jimmich's idea works
unless it works by adding a quantum dimension
i'm wrong

go to it
love to be wrong
(about that)
that's the first thing they teach you when yer studying magic:
it works whether you believe in it or not
that's the kindergarten stuff--getting that
that's the apple sauce
now i'm ready to move up to strained vegetables
and then maybe mashed hot dogs...

[Fletcher]

Understood and agreed!

Though, if I'm not mistaken, he's working out of order.

A] First get something that works!!!

Jim, you should have made it a list of bullet points. ;-)

No, he's been adamant from the day he produced his Plan that step 1. was to get something that works.

He's never wavered from that advice to others so I expect that he has heeded his own advice - hence I feel cautiously optimistic.

In the mean time of course, I continue to work on my own ideas & sims etc - you could call it using the force of habit ;7)

[Dwylbtzle]

use the force, luke
uh i mean fletcher
hey--you built that squamous math crunching machine
i believe you could build anything

yes--jim knows he has to do a build
(once again...got THAT goin' fer him)
not depending on a theorem alone, or anything

it just sounds complicated--gonna take the forges of thor

same problem i got
i know i have to shut up and build, eventually
i know that
too well
but mine's BIG--simple but BIG
kirk says the same thing--he sees something but it has to be real big
because the entire gravity of the earth is weaker than a toy magnet
when they fight over a pin the magnet win

[Dwylbtzle]

and who's fletcher kidding?
i can sniff out magic like a slightly above average intellegence rat
i can see certain things
it's a gift
a gifted rat and a starving dog:
i'm one of the greatest minds of the 16th century

when we were down to where our salvation depended on a scribble on a piece of paper
and GOTleib's goat had come along and eaten it
that damnable and luxurious mountain goat
as shakepeare once said
fletcher shot me that tony cuthbert link

now that didn't happen for no reason
things don't go because they went

he doesn't show his hand lightly i perceive
and he's very polite
look at imm

good wizardry protocol

[ovyyus]

I feel cautiously optimistic

I've felt that way from day one despite years of false claims and teasing and god peddlers and scammers and good people just getting it wrong and my own considerable personal failures. I continue to feel cautiously optimistic because I think that some day someone will step forward and simply present a solution to how Bessler's wheel operated.

Jim, constantly comparing me to Wager simply because I will not believe in something on your say so alone is OK. I am an unbeliever when it comes to say so alone and will probably continue that habit (a habit learned from hard experience, I might add). Hopefully that doesn't mean that you are assuming the roll of Bessler because then we may never find out what's inside your wheel (or your head, whichever the case may be).

Would you rather denigrate and put down the possibility that Bessler's wheel was a motion wheel

I've never put down the possibility that Bessler's wheel could be anything, including a motion wheel. What I do know is that any engine capable of doing work must be able to transform an available energy source. That is the beginning of the potential to do work. It's not my fault that you can't define your energy source outside of your engine operation. Yours is either a unique predicament in history, or it is history repeating. Time will tell. I'd wish you luck with your work over the next month or two but you probably don't need it.

[Dwylbtzle]

if anyone's gonna pedal with God, it's on a bicycle built for two
he's not gonna pick you up and throw you on the handlebars

i perceive that ovvyus is an agnostic in the bessler/anti-bessler religions
best thing to be
if yer an atheist yer KINda smarmy, now--though yer skepticism is understandable
a true believer then yer an al qaeda member in my book--and get that gravity alone flipper bomb away from me
you know that bomb yer wearin makes yer ass look big

and how long this all might take?
well, it took twenty years to become proficient with a longbow
it took twenty years to learn to become a full fledged druid
you have to delay gratification till yer 30 MINIMUM to become a doctor

i try to hold back my starving dog whining --(which i do have)
for ten at least
is a whimper ok?--you may hear some whimperin from me

[ovyyus]

Dwylbtzle, anything I say might only encourage you :D

[cloud camper]

So lets get this straight folks.

Jim has "strong convictions" and a personally written computer program that provides full proof that it works.

Except that Jim forgot to include calculations for CP because that would be "idiotic".

But of course no need to actually build the thing, that's messy, time consuming and expensive.

This is behavior straight from Christo 4-99's and Gill Simos' playbook where they demand respect for a nonsensical theory that they couldn't even put into words. And of course it was insulting that they should actually be expected to build their device.

We are now violating every scientific principle known to man when experiments are not needed to validate hypotheses.

What we have here is five star crackpot modality.

[Fletcher]

Mitcch .. No ...

What we have here is a well promulgated plan where the author has numerously stated that step 1. was to physically have something that works.

We also have a neither confirm nor deny policy that a build has been successfully completed to elevate the hypotheses to science fact - the reasons for this are unknown to me.

The author has a proven track record of previous & earned credibility as far as I am concerned.

[cloud camper]

According to Ralph, Jim has been claiming or promising runners since 1995.

Jim has now established a proven track record of failure for his claims.

[Dwylbtzle]

Dwylbtzle, anything I say might only encourage you :D

then let me say something to encourage you
someone could put an eye out with that flipper
keep on being the voice of prudence
good job
the voice calling in the wilderness
the soul you save could be a true believer

[Fletcher]

You might want to research that yourself CC rather than rely on somebody else - IIRC it was about late 2005, early 2006 that jim_mich had the embryonic ideas for this particular incarnation.

He did present one other full idea for public appraisal well before that IIRC but he never made any claims about it other than expressing enthusiasm for that particular approach at the time [as we all defend our ideas].

He certainly hasn't been "claiming or promising runners since 1995" - I think you are confused with 'techstuf' & 'voice in the wilderness'.

You can look at his album page to see all pictures he has posted & in there will be the early ideas IINM.

[Dwylbtzle]

cloud camper--i perceive you are also frustrated
that means yer a damn good man

like it says: "those who wail and mourn are the ones who have the right attitude
send forth an angel to put a mark on their heads"
the full quote is: those who wail and mourn for the things that are going on
in this case i guess it'd be: for the things that are not going on
lol

but don't be mean to jimmich, now

edison tried a thousand pieces of don't work
till he finally found tungsten or something
and something about the atomic nature of tungsten finally got the funny

and then what did we get?
global warming and some idiot government who figured bulbs filled with mercury was a wise career move for the human race

maybe he's prepared to fail
which makes him a scientist and a gentleman
but maybe he's working as hard at failing as any primate can be expected to
and if he does and still keeps his head up high
then he might try again
maybe a thousand times
and i will take my hat off to him at every stage
or maybe it works