Scott please do away with the rating system.....

[Gill Simo]

Ovyyus.....please elaborate your point.
Seems your bet results in something vaguely better, yet very similar, to the current end result to me?
Having witnessed ten years of bugger all thus far then the change in emphasis & style that the likes of Smithie would surely bring about might at the very least prove refreshingly entertaining & any change surely gives rise to new possibilities rather than banging away at the same old, obvious, impossibilities.
As for your reference to my latest offering, it speaks most clearly for itself regardless of who choses not to listen. Trolls, parasites or otherwise.

[smith66]

Gill, perhaps your "A wee model to make it easier?" topic might be improved if trolls and parasites moderated it? While I think your rugged sensibilities might cope with it better than most, I'd certainly like to see how such an open-slather experiment would end. My bet is the end result would be pages and pages of rambling complaints about abhammer, cancer surgery, how unjust the ratings system is, unprovable claims, politics, death cults, and penis type. What was your wee model about again? :D

Seems to me you are the one on about it ovyyus. I've never really understood how credibility came down to clever word play. Engineering can be demonstrated but at some point people need to be willing to accept the simple fact that they might not know everything.
As for Bessler's wheel, he does show in one of his drawings a principal everyone who has read his books have missed. But then, Bessler did say the motion to be found was in his drawings and not his writings.

[smith66]

Ovyyus.....please elaborate your point.
Seems your bet results in something vaguely better, yet very similar, to the current end result to me?
Having witnessed ten years of bugger all thus far then the change in emphasis & style that the likes of Smithie would surely bring about might at the very least prove refreshingly entertaining & any change surely gives rise to new possibilities rather than banging away at the same old, obvious, impossibilities.
As for your reference to my latest offering, it speaks most clearly for itself regardless of who choses not to listen. Trolls, parasites or otherwise.

Gill,
What they're missing is found in Mt 87;
http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index. ... Mt_087.jpg

Where the Freemasons symbol is where "God" works. What all of those other guys have missed is that air pressure is about 14 psia and when the pump is moved upwards, it creates a vacuum.
Because of this, atmospheric air pressure does the pumping. Other wise, with a pump like mine, for every square inch of surface area, 14.2 lbs. of force is needed to account for atmospheric area pressure acting on the static head.
It's called learning from bitter experience and is something Bessler said he learned from.

[Gill Simo]

Can't imagine that Bessler used compressed air, or kinda un-compressed if that's what you mean Clickerty-Click?
I don't know....I saw an 18th century automaton just the other day, a wee boy that wrote whatever you asked of him....incredible engineering etc.
Did Bessler have access to seals so good that his wheel wouldn't have huffed, puffed, sucked, blew or hissed...not once apparently?

[smith66]

Gill,
>> Did Bessler have access to seals so good that his wheel wouldn't have huffed, puffed, sucked, blew or hissed...not once apparently? <<

The answer would be yes. The 2 drawings of Besslers show water pumps.
To achieve the kind of power he claimed, a weight would need to move twice as far out as the average position.
Nobody has ever come up with anything that even allows for 5% over balance that can work.
With water and 2 weights working together along with a possible boost from atmospheric pressure, then the force necessary to rotate a wheel starts becoming available.
After all, perpetual motion is impossible until proven otherwise. And this means that Bessler would need to be considered capable and dedicated if he did build working wheels.
And the quick drawing I made shows 4 bellows which could work. I just got back to work and am going to take a break and drink some beer for a while.
Just spent $300 to fix my car so I can get 2 days on my next paycheck.
still, this is something simple enough to where anyone like Tarsier or Jim_Mich can do it. And if it doesn't work, then they can say how stupid I am and if it does work, then they can say how they figured it out.
And with bellows, the weighted levers would control the flow of water, couldn't be much simpler. Heck, I bet even a child could build it. Any way, that's what one witness said and what Bessler put in his drawings.

[ovyyus]

Ovyyus.....please elaborate your point.

Waste of time. Let no rules rule.

[Dwylbtzle]

why would a buncha nerds on steroids like the likes of us wanna win a popularity contest amongst ourselves?

lol

[ovyyus]

Dwylbtzle, it makes no difference why. Have at it, the floor is yours.

[Dwylbtzle]

naw--that's cool
that one post was enough, thanks

i wasn't even commenting on any of the pages
i was just answering the theme with my one answer

[Gill Simo]

Let no rules rule Ovyyus?
You ever had some other suggestion for making the impossible possible?
Pray tell.

[Dwylbtzle]

i remember a skit from an old episode of laugh in
(yes i'm that wizzened):

"we will start a society with no rules!"

..."wait--we should have SOME rules..."

"sorry...them's the rules"

ok i didn't say the skit was a bellywhopper

[Gill Simo]

So....guess that's the three resident mental cases and a capitulating, highly regarded, highly decorated general up for anarchy. Anyone else?

[Dwylbtzle]

I WAS commander of my catapult division, sir
i'm always game for aggressive battle i guess
the young people of today just have no appreciation for blood well shed


i say if i say a gravity alone wheel don't work
the true believers are crestfallen
but if i say something we don't factor in yet might work
the bessler atheists become enraged frothing with religious fury

a fat girl with glasses and braces like me doesn't stand a chance in a pop contest anyway--to begin with
there
there's my vote again (on the dot system)

vote often and early
my motto

[smith66]

Gill,
With seals, a rabbet (groove) in the wood would make a seat for the leather. Then when would is inserted into it, wedges could be used to make it rigid.
And it's always possible to use the same vacuum drawing the water up to reenforce the seals.
Each bellow could be made with a single piece of leather. And in those days, they might've known which trees or plants could be used for the tubes. You know, for his initial or test builds., possibly even some of his early builds. That'd be one way to save on how much work he had to do.
With his later builds, they would've been more involved.
One thing that is possible is that kids knew how to build things. You know, no wal-mart.

edit; Gill, one thing I noticed was how many hits on my thread, yet a few people had to take it over without any consideration for Bessler's work. Something I've always had to tolerate.
But most likely, back then kids nuilt their own toys contrary to what drizzle said.

[Dwylbtzle]

nothin for nuthin
but
agree with smith that their technology back then was mad focused on catapults and gears and pulleys and levers and engines of war
they coulda built things you can't imagine now

and did

still vote to let the dots fall from my eyes
kids built things
some worked some didn't