How Difficult can it be?

[rasselasss]

Take a balanced bicycle wheel mounted on a shaft between two bearings......next stick a pea sized piece of putty/blue tack whatever at 12.30 o'clock and the wheel rotates/turns to 6/7/8/o'clock ........How to keep the motion going ....What's so difficult about that.......answers on a postcard with no swearing please...

[rasselasss]

The solution is obvious and simple after all Bessler solved it and yet he had no formal recognised qualifications...remember this.. for motion to continue the imbalance only has to occur between 12.30 o'clock and 4 o'clock ad infinitum.....come on ..get the thinking caps on and we can solve this riddle.

[rasselasss]

Many have demonstrated in various guises that if the wheel circumference had pockets and hopper fed with an unlimited supply of "peas"(ballbearings whatever)from 12.30 and dropping off at 4-5-6 o'clock they could sustain motion......its as SIMPLE as that...or is it.....our quest is just to bring a single pea(whatever)back to 12.30 o'clock ad infinitum with as few moving parts.....We only require a "return"of less than a quarter of the wheels circumference ....Iacob Alex has said on many occasions "keep it simple"....This has to be the simplest version of wheel design that we can concentrate our efforts on..

[rasselasss]

I was hoping some-one after 4 days since posting the first blog here would ask/offer the obvious question ......with a repetative load and reload.....Why not at 2 to 4 o'clock (or even less?)thus reducing the circumference movement required (1/6 instead of approx.1/4) .....remember we are not asking this wheel to do any "work"..just continue motion.......the only Physics rule to play here is "for every action WHAT is the re-action"...

[rasselasss]

I feel a kind of seity about this thread,surreal even,like a one armed man in an empty theatre clapping....anyway here's another thought to engage,....if any are old enough to remember the game of a "hoop and stick"where you rolled the hoop along a road/pavement and trotting alongside one only had to clip the rim of the hoop now and again to keep it rolling.......this would suggest for our purpose we only need a limited engagement of our mech.....

[jim_mich]

Rasselasss, all methods of PM involving rising and falling weight do not work. Bessler even said this, if you take the time to read and understand his writings. Since you are discussing rotating a wheel by using rising and falling weights, I simply don't respond, since it will only antagonize you and others.

Everyone assumes Bessler's wheels to be gravity wheels rotated by falling weights. Yet science says it's impossible to make a PM wheel rotated perpetually by gravity.

So you have at least two choices.
[1] Keep searching for a gravity solution to Bessler's wheel.
[2] Search for a motion solution, where the motions of the weights cause the forceful wheel rotation.
[3] Search for other solutions, including the possibility that Bessler was a fraud

People who search for perpetual motion are looked upon as being a little bit crazy. And people looking for ways where motion causes more motion are looked upon as being even more crazy.

So let me ask a question... Within the confines of an enclosed wheel, can you cause 2 peas to rise as one pea falls? If you can do that, then it's a simple task to make a PM wheel. But if you cannot, (if such a thing is impossible to do) then you can search forever, adding more and more peas, and your wheel would rotate faster if it were empty. You would be better off planting a garden, then the peas would grow heavier.

The truth is that no one can make 2 peas rise as one pea falls. Such a task is impossible. This was the point that Bessler was trying to make. But perpetual motion people twisted it around and assume that the solution is in making a 4 pound weight rise as a 1 pound weight falls. People don't read the whole of what Bessler wrote. They pick out only isolated sentences. I've explained this a number of time. But people stick their fingers in their ears and say, "No, no, no! You're are wrong. The wheel was turned by gravity." All I can do is shrug my shoulders and say that's not what Bessler said.

[rasselasss]

Jim Mich,i appreciate your imput,and agree with all you said,no-one i know can within the confines of a wheel or outside of it can raise 2 peas with one pea (whatever of equal weights)and as you rightly say many here align their designs with multiple configurations and the result is always the same "Zilch"...back where they started(i do not exclude myself as having followed this line of thought in the past)....What i'm about here is NOT "at this point" to emulate Besslers build or design or cloud any thoughts with his books etc.....Just to cause this simple wheel build to continue to rotate(mech. inside the wheel or outside does'nt matter) ........The question is how to raise one pea WITH one pea (have a think about it)...to me THIS is the game changer.....Please remember i'm already a crazy irishman else i would'nt be here..(the wife says she has a cerificate to prove it)

[rasselasss]

Jim Mich mentions the other possibility "That Bessler was a fraud"...i don't think so,but i do know this,if he's looking down at us now he'll be be saying what a pathetic bunch they are,he had to build his wooden wheel,order and wait for materials from blacksmiths etc.and work with 1700's technology and here's us,we can buy most we need over the counter almost immediately and in metals/plastics he could only dream of and yet with all our piety and wit as exhibited on many threads here we are not any nearer to his achievement....We are approaching this Forum's 10 year anniversary and have seen Bessler's 300th date go by ...i'd say he's having a good laugh at our antics and rightly so.

[AB Hammer]

rasselasss

Bessler was no a fraud and soon we will all be witness of how his wheel was most likely done. Simple secrets have been discovered through trial and error and now some successes are now in view.

For that I believe Bessler is now smiling.

[Art]

.

“ How difficult can it be ? � - A good question !

That was the same question I asked myself when I first read about Bessler when I was 23 years old . The answer I gave myself then was “ Hey I should be able to knock this over in a month ! �

Primed with an abundance of youthful enthusiasm and self confidence , and a firm belief that Bessler and his witnesses were genuine , I became a walking talking totally obsessed believer that this baby was mine , by virtue of the fact that I knew Physics ,and Chemistry and Mathematics better than any 17th century genius could have known . I was standing on the shoulders of a whole slew of scientific geniuses who had progressed knowledge to 1970 to an unequalled pinnacle of scientific knowledge ( and in retrospect hubris - in my case anyway ! ) .

Since my first initial evaluation of the problem until now I have had ample time to re-evaluate , and my conclusion is that it is quite difficult !

How else can I personally explain my failure ? I am still of the opinion that Bessler and the witnesses were genuine (many people have been executed as a result of evidence that is not near as good IMO ) . So that means that I am in the running for a booby prize ie I maybe ONE of the longest serving modern day Bessler ‘wanna be s’ when I kick the bucket if I don’t get this challenge finished soon .

Since I still have a good degree of self confidence (and hubris ) , I still think it will only take (another ) month for me to crack this . I really really believe this : ) So I have to tell you straight up - It must be Difficult . It must be quite quite Difficult . And now that there are hundreds of equally smart people now giving some reasonable competition , I had better start lifting my game or possibly qualify for that booby prize for the not very smartest of carpenter boys .

[rasselasss]

Alan,how many times have we read "i can't say anymore,but if it does'nt work i'll give the details"and then it fades to obscurity,is it fear of ridicule,greed or personal ambition,you know truth is a bitter pill to swallow but its the cause of our failure here,we're like headless chickens everyone pulling in different directions strangely enough with a common aim.......I think Bessler would be smirking not smiling.

[rasselasss]

Art,the reason for failure among the many intelligent folk here is difficult to comprehend "what one man can achieve another man can replicate"thats the minimum line ,many have gone to the grave believing the solution within their grasp...its truthfully a sad state of affairs,if there is more openness and less secrecy this would have been solved many years ago,its human nature and evidently "run of the mill"here,pitifull in a way.....Good Luck with your ideas.

[jim_mich]

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.

[AB Hammer]

Alan,how many times have we read "i can't say anymore,but if it does'nt work i'll give the details"and then it fades to obscurity,is it fear of ridicule,greed or personal ambition,you know truth is a bitter pill to swallow but its the cause of our failure here,we're like headless chickens everyone pulling in different directions strangely enough with a common aim.......I think Bessler would be smirking not smiling.

Yea, this is an old story. But it is also human nature to steal credit from others work and is like ID theft. Yes Bessler is probably smirking as well with a good laugh at most of all of our attempts. But from some he would be looking and thinking with a hopeful eye. You are so close! but can you figure out the next step. Most here are honorable people. That is why I have a personal forum on this forum. I have shown many of my ideas. But now I have cleared off my forum to be used for what I am now doing and new findings will be shown as time permits me to test first. This way there is no distractions. I will be adding some new people soon as well. Remember Bessler's breakthrough was when he saw a movement and then he knew he was on the proper track. It must of been simple.

Alan

[rasselasss]

Alan, like yourself i have built many devices over the years,it took this to realize the reason for failure,always too much complication,as you have stated elsewhere on this forum.....too much friction,(moving stuff eats energy).....we ask" too much"from our designs(builds)...really its just common sense if we think about it.....i have to state i don't hang on to every word Bessler wrote or supposedly said which i believe he designed delibertly to throw everyone in disarray which he certainly succeeded in doing(300 years)as you said its simple,i honestly believe "so simple its starring us in the face"...the minimum number of moving parts,the least the better thats why i started this simple wheel build for all to look and try and figure out a solution....Folk can ridicule all they like,red dot me even but i know i'm on the right track.Good Luck.