'Braess's Paradox' - a rare occassion a mass can bootstrapping itself ?!

[Fletcher]

I was clearing out some files recently, some from 15 years ago where I found this one.

I decided I would post it up here for others to look into if they wish - I did do a search here & couldn't find anything on the board about the 'Braess's Paradox' [or on overunity.com] so this may be new for at least a few.

It should be particularly interesting to members like Pete & Trevor who don't discount the possibility of springs playing a major role in a working wheel.

Links below & vids on You Tube of physical experiments with springs I found yesterday.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess%27s_paradox

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiOEYNGV5P8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMrYlspifuo

[PhiChaser]

Thank you Fletcher!
I didn't want to hijack your thread so I started a new one about springs.
I did not know about this paradox, very interesting!!
If you had a weight connected by multiple springs from different points you could use this mechanical advantage to 'force' the weight to go the 'easy' way.
Good stuff.

Happy building,

PC

[Fletcher]

IIRC I had thoughts of using it somehow to replace the radial rubber bands in a rubber band like motor.

I was new to this game back then & quickly moved onto other things & put it at the back of my mind.

Whenever people talk about 'bootstrapping' devices this one surfaces again for me as probably the closest thing I've seen to a legitimate bootstrapping device.

Whether it can be used to create imbalance or asymmetric torques in a wheel or has potential for OU I don't know, but it was an interesting phenomena.

[erick]

Interesting indeed! To me this leaves us with two questions:

- how can this motion be used to create an imbalance?

- how can this be done in a resetable way?

E

[honza]

Very counter-intuitive. Thanks.

[unstable]

Very interesting Fletcher, thanks for sharing.

Claudio

Edit (added):

If we think about a method to switch the springs configuration between serial and parallel (for example locking the weight after the lifting pulse) we may use this trick, together with gravity, to obtain OU.

Claudio

Edit2: MMMhh not so simple :-(

[Tarsier79]

I have been considering application of this for a few days, and then something just clicked. Although it is a good trick, it is no more than just leverage, or force over distance.

The two springs in series are applying half the force for twice the distance.... Just as if you were to apply the weight to a lever, if you were to move it half way down the lever, it would lift roughly the same amount. Just as if you were to reset the springs singularly, you would have to stretch each one the lift distance, distance x 2, force/2. No net gain.

Thanks Fletcher, a good mental exercise.

K.

[daxwc]

I think your right Tarsier79 the force was already preset in and you leveraged it.

Just as if you were to reset the springs singularly, you would have to stretch each one the lift distance, distance x 2, force/2. No net gain.

Strangely Basler’s words seem to imply there is no net gain in PE. Can pure horizontal displacement be used to generate energy; science says no, but a fulcrum moving horizontally varies the force on a load.

[Fletcher]

Exactly daxc ! - that's why Wagner is right & so is he.

[Tarsier79]

If you insert the 2 springs in a storks bill mechanism, they are both in series and parallel.