Big brother is watching...

[murilo]

One have to understand things but submerged in reality and facts!

Main question is that the US - country, Democrats, Republicans, citizens - have a kind or type of enemies that are NOT normal.

On their view, if you are born there you and your family have to die and stay in hell for eternity! Do you want more and worst than this? I just can't guess what can be!

Your enemies don't care to die since you are killed!!! Is this normal?

For true, I'm sorry to say but I approve any stuff against this situation and fanatic guys that are suffering religious and politic brain washing since 6 months old, since babies nest!

Woooosh!!!

[getterdone]

Well Jim, we're in agreement on this one. As technologies improve , governments , and the people, have to decide where to draw the line.

[jim_mich]

The founding father knew where to draw the line when they wrote the constitution. There should be no prying into personal affairs of anyone without a search warrant that spells out what is to be searched for and why there is probable cause for searching.

Daily collection of Americans' phone records is way over the line.

[AB Hammer]

Well then true freedom loving American patriots set their hero standards pretty low.

daxwc

Time will tell if Snowden is a hero or a traitor. But lets look at this.

You don't cry wolf in a den of sleeping wolves or you become the next meal.

From experience the chain of command has to be jumped to get justice form time to time.




edited to correct a word, I wasn't fully awake.

[AB Hammer]

The founding father knew where to draw the line when they wrote the constitution. There should be no prying into personal affairs of anyone without a search warrant that spells out what is to be searched for and why there is probable cause for searching.

Daily collection of Americans' phone records is way over the line.

2 Thumbs up on this one Jim_Mich.
This is what people long forget and with the IRS scandal and more being overly abused a stand has to be made.

[daxwc]

Jim:

The founding father knew where to draw the line when they wrote the constitution. There should be no prying into personal affairs of anyone without a search warrant that spells out what is to be searched for and why there is probable cause for searching.

Really, didn’t know they had telephones and internet back then. If somebody overhearing a conversation at work is admissible evidence, then so should phone calls; you don’t own the phone company it runs through. Search warrant should be for something you own, not something you use. Don’t like somebody might find out your humping your buddy’s wife, then talk to her in person and don’t do it on a crowded train.

I don’t like when customs goes through my international freight and I own that. Don’t hear millions complaining about it.

[jim_mich]

Really, didn’t know they had telephones and internet back then.

Back then communication was by postal letter. You folded the letter closed, sealed it with sealing wax, and pressed your signet ring into the soft wax before it hardened, addressed the outside with the name of the intended recipient. Servants (workers) carried the letter from place to place until it arrived at its destination. If at any time the seal was broken, then the servants were in deep trouble. They could loose their job, loose their reputation, be beaten, be jailed, their families might starve, all because they broke a seal on a private letter.

Snooping into private communications was a serious offense.

[daxwc]

Times change Jim, it is a smaller world now; it is no different than the millions of surveillance camera in public places, private owners and stores.

[Fletcher]

http://pesn.com/2013/08/11/9502358_US-G ... on-of-NSA/

[getterdone]

Yes Dax, it is different than a million cameras in public places

. It can be used for corporate espionage, cohersing politicians, spying on people who have the right to organize and protest...etc etc

I just read the fourth amendement, and although they didn't have the internet back then, I think that the intent of the law is clear

Good link Fletcher

[getterdone]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak70FTn4Br4

[daxwc]

During the 2013 NSA leaks cyber spying scandal, the surveillance agencies have been accused of intentionally spying on one another's citizens and willingly sharing the collected information with each other, allegedly circumventing laws preventing each agency from spying on its own citizens.

You think you have Big Brother in the America is rough; “In Germany, public forces are allowed to secretly install surveillance technology in the flats, houses and business premises of German citizens since January 16th 1998“

[daxwc]

Getterdone:

I just read the fourth amendement, and although they didn't have the internet back then, I think that the intent of the law is clear

The Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

I don’t know how the intent is clear; these are all things that reside in your home. Phone calls and emails go out of your home on somebody else’s service. Nowhere does it talk about espionage, eavesdropping agencies or the rights against surveillance.

[jim_mich]

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

"Effects" in this Amendment means personal possessions; property. Your wallet, your cell phone and your PDA are examples of "personal effects". However, this amendment is like all the others; the plain meaning is generally ignored, and lawyers argue over minutia.

[daxwc]

"Effects" in this Amendment means personal possessions; property. Your wallet, your cell phone and your PDA are examples of "personal effects". However, this amendment is like all the others; the plain meaning is generally ignored, and lawyers argue over minutia.

I agree with you that your cell phone falls under effects but not the transmission itself. You can’t seize the cellphone without a warrant, but the forth is not so clear eavesdropping the signal and the plain meaning becomes not so plain. Does the fourth ban all surveillance operations?