First Law Discussion

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Trevor, maybe your wheel will work in orbit around the earth and use the earth's gravity for energy up there. No math necessary.

Hi E1,

The drive motor gives me all the orbiting I need, all I ask of gravity is a constant pull down equal on both sides of the wheel to act on the orbiting mass, there is no overall drop in height. There is a pre-built in shift of the centre of gravity to the value of a lot less than the unwanted negative centre of gravity shift of know designs. It will work that is a fact as it is driven, the only question is how efficient will it be? The answer is build it and find out, but that will take time and saving up for, three years and counting thus far. Everything takes so long I got two generator last year, this year I will try to get two gearboxes to drive them with. Maybe next year I can build a two generator model till then I will vent hot air which is cheap.

What if it does work well? 5 years wasted all around the world.

What if it does not work well? I will sleep easy knowing for sure.

Regards Trevor

[Tarsier79]

TLW

I know you saved for years, but there is always more than one way to skin a cat. Motors and generators won't give you a definite answer due to unknown efficiencies at certain revs, and inefficiencies of gearboxes. You could have tested much cheaper using another low cost, more accurate device that gives or takes measured torque as you please. All you have to do is understand the similarities between what you want and the humble "Atwoods".

[AB Hammer]

Ok, if you have a gravity wheel in a couple weeks I'll give you 100,000 thalers too.

I only have one question. Which type of thalers are you referring to? Since I was unfamiliar with this tender. I had to look it up and most I found where silver but very old.

Early years of 20th century: unsuccessful attempt to mint Maria Theresa thaler in Abyssinia. Starting in 1935 Italians mint the coin still popular in the area.[

[jim_mich]

Offering 100,000 thalers is offering a specific mass of silver.

A silver thaler was simply a silver coin weighing 1 thaler. A Reichsthaler (King's thaler) was a silver coin that had a weight as defined by the current monarchy. A number of thaler coins from Bessler's time and era have been found to weigh about 25.984 grams each.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

TLW

I know you saved for years, but there is always more than one way to skin a cat. Motors and generators won't give you a definite answer due to unknown efficiencies at certain revs, and inefficiencies of gearboxes. You could have tested much cheaper using another low cost, more accurate device that gives or takes measured torque as you please. All you have to do is understand the similarities between what you want and the humble "Atwoods".

Hi Kaine,

Give me a bit of credit!
Lets look at the humble “Atwoods� Do I fully understand its workings?
As I am the member that devised the indentation test to test the Atwoods device under working conditions. I believe I know how to skin more than one cat.

There is no similarities between the Geo Genny and the Atwoods design, for one there in no overall drop in weight height in my design. I have done some tests on the Geo Genny, and to date with the tests I have done it works as designed thus far.

One of the test was to drive the generators with very large weighted pulleys, I predicted that there would be a negative shift in the devices centre of gravity, but I built it anyway. There was no surprise when the centre of gravity shift was equal to the generators resistance. This is why my device was designed to shift the centre of gravity via the push over wheels when it is constructed, there are other reasons for the push over wheels as well. On the bright side of that build is the levers was turning the generators and it seemed to be only the negative centre of gravity shift the wheel was working against, and not the resistance in the lever and generator pivots which is my main concern! The main GG design feature is that the levers rotate with the generators and there is a sweet high torque 360 angle change between the generators and the levers per 360 turn of the device, using the push over wheel system there is only a minimal shift of the devices centre or gravity when rotating the device.

I stop here and just say that the Geo Genny was design for gearbox driven generators on the other side of the lever shafts and that’s how I will build it, I am expecting a efficiency of at least times two, I will only find out for sure with a full on build.

I am currently building ( a bit at a time if I get any time ) a one lever one generator design using a variation of the Roberval Balance, I am not expecting a lot from this design but I have the gears and chain and wanted to build it to see what “if anything� can be gained by it.

I do not saved as much as I should because I like to enjoy my self, and party a bit. There is no point in working traveling all over the world and country to be confined to your Hotel room, I like to go out and meet people and visit places. When I was in Brazil I would go to Rio on every third weekend and chill out, the first weekend there I flew over Rio in a helicopter, that was one gear box I could have brought, windsurfing holidays and memberships is another.

With Respect as always, Trevor

[Tarsier79]

There is no similarities between the Geo Genny and the Atwoods design

Agreed. No there isn't. But you could use a number of atwoods to test the geo genny.

Atwoods are more efficient than a motor, and more efficient than a generator, and provide a constant torque.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Kaine,

I will build the one generator one lever option and run as many tests and variables as I can with that. I have the generators now and have welded 3 rear bike cogs to 3 front pedal cogs to give me 3 to 1 ratios, so I can make one gear box 3 x 3 x 3, (or many number of ratios ) = 27 to 1 ratio times the wheel speed of 20 RPM, this will give me a generator RPM of 540, which should work out to 600w at 14v. This should be enough to drive the 400w drive motor. That is if I can increase the balance enough to reduce the negative CoG shift. Still something to play with until I win the lottery and have everything made for me. Soon I should be able to build any design without it costing too much because I will have all the parts I need.

Regards Trevor

[Andyb]

Hi, message to all ,Jim mentioned running cars on hydrogen earlier and it got me to thinking about some thing i learnt a while ago but have never bothered to look into, apparently if you pass a voltage through water and cap the chamber the pressure keeps rising it does not relate to voltage needed to raise the pressure the splitting action raises the pressure so solar power and its low voltage coupled with batteries could create a good push system,just a thought you would have to insulate the chamber with water to stop the gas escaping with some gases any way,just had to share that ,i could be classed as a problem to the world for saying this which is crazy but hey its all mad anyway.All the best Andy.

[Tarsier79]

The First Law of Thermodynamics is concerned with the conversion of energy from one form to another. This law states that when energy is converted from form to form, there is no spontaneous gain or loss of energy. Thus when converted back to its first form, the amount of energy remains the same, when losses of friction and such are accounted for. The First Law of Thermodynamics basically relates to heat engines and similar situations. It is not an all-inclusive law.

This seems like you want it to not be an all-inclusive law. The conversion of energy from form to form. Kinetic and potential energies ar a form of energy, as is heat. There is no reason this law does not encompass all forms of energys, and their conversion. In fact, there is no proof it doesn't.

[cloud camper]

No Kaine, no.

This would interfere with the Plan.

JM can rewrite the 1st law anyway he wants to.

[wheelrite]

Its name lives on in various currencies as the dollar or tolar. Etymologically, "Thaler" is an abbreviation of "Joachimsthaler", a coin type from the city of Joachimsthal in Bohemia, where some of the first such coins were minted in 1518.