The first essential step toward greater energy independence is to apply technology to increase domestic production from existing energy resources. And one of the most promising sources of energy is nuclear power. Today's technology has made nuclear power safer, cleaner, and more efficient than ever before.
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Technology also allows us to use our most abundant energy source in a smart way. America as enough coal to last for 250 years. But coal presents an environmental challenge. To make cleaner use of this resource, I have asked Congress for more than $2 billion over 10 years for my coal research initiative. It's a program that will encourage new technologies that remove virtually all pollutants from coal-fired power plants.
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The second essential step toward greater energy independence is to harness technology to create new sources of energy. Hydrogen is one of the most promising of these new sources of energy.
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Ethanol is another promising source of energy.
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We can produce another renewable fuel, bodies [typo, biodiesel], from leftover fats and vegetable oils.
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Technology can also help us tap into a vital source that flows around us all the time and that is wind. That's why I've asked Congress to provide $1.9 billion over 10 years for tax incentives for renewable energy technologies like wind, as well as residential solar heating systems and energy produced from landfill gas and biomass.
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A third essential step toward greater energy independence is to harness the power of technology so we can continue to become better conservers of energy.
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We can imagine a day when technologies like solar panels, high-efficiency appliances, and advanced installation will allow us to build zero-energy homes that produce as much energy as they consume.
Encouraging
Moderator: scott
Encouraging
I thought this was encouraging. If you don't have time to read it, here's a summary:
Disclaimer: I reserve the right not to know what I'm talking about and not to mention this possibility in my posts. This disclaimer also applies to sentences I claim are quotes from anybody, including me.
re: Encouraging
Oh no! Of all things he's done, now he's going after soylent green?!We can produce another renewable fuel, bodies [typo, biodiesel], from leftover fats and vegetable oils.
:-)
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ken_behrendt
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re: Encouraging
I've heard lofty political speeches for the last several decades about how we were going to develop new technologies and make existing one more efficient. It all sounds nice until its time to come up with the $$$'s to make it work. Then we're right back to dirty old fossil fuels again until the next politician decides its time for a speech.
My prediction is that we'll muddle along more or less the way we are now until about 95% of the know oil reserves are gone and the cost of a barrel of crude is somewhere around $300 USD. By then there will be renewed calls to "do something" about the problem with "new technologies". Meanwhile we'll all be walking around outside wearing the latest high efficiency pollution filter mask on our noses while some company sends us a monthly bill to pump filtered air into our sealed houses!
ken
My prediction is that we'll muddle along more or less the way we are now until about 95% of the know oil reserves are gone and the cost of a barrel of crude is somewhere around $300 USD. By then there will be renewed calls to "do something" about the problem with "new technologies". Meanwhile we'll all be walking around outside wearing the latest high efficiency pollution filter mask on our noses while some company sends us a monthly bill to pump filtered air into our sealed houses!
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: Encouraging
This is very interesting. Has this researcher discovered a step to achieving real cold fusion? 600 degrees celcius? SAY WHAT?
Anyone have a guess as to where the energy in this phenomenon might be comng from?
Rapid oxidation?
Transference?
Fusion?
PFM reaction? (Pure F'n Magic)
Why do I have the feeling this gentleman may suddenly dissappear?
http://www.ornl.gov/info/press_releases ... 0050419-00
Anyone have a guess as to where the energy in this phenomenon might be comng from?
Rapid oxidation?
Transference?
Fusion?
PFM reaction? (Pure F'n Magic)
Why do I have the feeling this gentleman may suddenly dissappear?
http://www.ornl.gov/info/press_releases ... 0050419-00
The Sky is the Limit
re: Encouraging
>It all sounds nice until its time to come up with the $$$'s to make it work.<
Did you get to read the whole speech Ken? He said:
The energy is coming from the burning of methane.
Did you get to read the whole speech Ken? He said:
PIMAN, I did hear of that and it didn't cross my mind as especially odd. Usually, in order to achieve and maintain ignition, the chemicals must reach some prerequisite temperature. In this case it seems that catalytic self ignition at room temperature allows the extra thermal energy to be removed for use without disrupting the burning.It's time for America to start building again. That's why, three years ago, my administration launched the Nuclear Power 2010 Initiative. This is a seven-year, $1.1 billion effort by government and industry to start building new nuclear power plants by the end of this decade.
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But coal presents an environmental challenge. To make cleaner use of this resource, I have asked Congress for more than $2 billion over 10 years for my coal research initiative. It's a program that will encourage new technologies that remove virtually all pollutants from coal-fired power plants. My Clear Skies initiative will result in more than $52 billion in investment in clean coal technologies by the private sector.
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Two years ago my administration launched a crash program called the Hydrogen Fuel initiative. We've already dedicated $1.2 billion over five years to this effort to develop hydrogen-powered fuel cells.
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I've asked Congress for an additional $500 million over five years to help move advanced technology vehicles from the research lab to the dealership lot.
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To help produce fuel for these cars, my administration has also launched a Nuclear Hydrogen Initiative, an effort to develop advanced nuclear technologies that can produce hydrogen fuels for cars and trucks. My budgets have dedicated $35 million over the past three years and will continue this effort.
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That's why I've asked Congress to provide $1.9 billion over 10 years for tax incentives for renewable energy technologies like wind, as well as residential solar heating systems and energy produced from landfill gas and biomass.
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We've proposed $2.5 billion over 10 years in tax credits that will encourage consumers to buy energy-efficient hybrid cars and trucks, and we need to expand these incentives to include clean diesel vehicles, as well.
The energy is coming from the burning of methane.
Disclaimer: I reserve the right not to know what I'm talking about and not to mention this possibility in my posts. This disclaimer also applies to sentences I claim are quotes from anybody, including me.
Re: re: Encouraging
It is not so unusual for "combustion" to occur with sufficiently reactive chemicals in the presence of a catalyst. Basically this is what happens in a fuel cell releasing electrical energy rather than heat energy. As the article states, this happens in nature. The mitochondria in our cells are able to oxidize and produce energy from certain of the hydrocarbon chemicals we eat.PIMAN wrote:This is very interesting. Has this researcher discovered a step to achieving real cold fusion? 600 degrees celcius? SAY WHAT?
Anyone have a guess as to where the energy in this phenomenon might be comng from?
Rapid oxidation?
Transference?
Fusion?
PFM reaction? (Pure F'n Magic)
Why do I have the feeling this gentleman may suddenly dissappear?
Fussion on the other hand results in the transmutation of elements into other elements rather than producing compounds of elememts. This allows more energy to be liberated than combustion or oxidation reactions.
Vic Hays
Ambassador MFG LLC
Ambassador MFG LLC
re: Encouraging
Thanks Vic.
Perhaps the platinum thing will pan into something.
Perhaps the platinum thing will pan into something.
The Sky is the Limit
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ken_behrendt
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re: Encouraging
Yes, Jonathan, I read most of the speech and noted the prominent use of words like "billions" and "initiatives" and "projects". I heard it all during the Carter administration, too. During the various oil embargoes, Americans were really starting to get annoyed sitting in gas lines waiting for $2 worth of gas on every other day. Carter announced an "initiative" to rapidly develop a synthetic fuel industry in the USA to make us less dependent on Middle East oil. The infrastructure cost projection was a mere $50 billion, although some estimates said it would cost 100's of billions of dollars.
About a year or two later all the "initiative" had to show was a few gas stations here and there that would pump "gasohol" into our tanks at a price higher than straight gasoline was selling for. I tried a tank and never experienced that much valve clatter in my life! Plus, I was actually getting LESS mileage per gallon with the gasohol (which was 75% gasoline and 25% ethyl alcohol derived from the fermentation of corn)!!!
To make hydrogen fueled technology a REALITY in OUR lifetimes will require a combined government and private sector investment in the TRILLIONS! I doubt if we'll ever see that kind of commitment...
As far as "cold fusion" is concerned...IF it takes place at all (which I doubt), then it would have to use some sort of bizarre quantum tunneling effect. Whenever an energetically unfavorable process if forced to take place, it tends to do so at a very slow rate. Thus, IF cold fusion does take place in nature or can be made to do so in a laboratory, then I would not expect it to be a practical solution to our global energy problems.
The spontaneous oxidation of organic materials at room temperatures is, however, a different matter altogether. There is a natural phenomena known as "fox fire" or "wil-o'-the wisp" (sp?) that can produce an odd reddish glowing flame near ground level in forests. I think it was discovered that it is due to the release of methane gas from rotting underground vegetation. Apparently, the gas seeps up throught the ground and begins slowly oxidizing and glowing. It has been the source of many folktales about haunted forests and "little people" who wander around dark, damp forests at night carrying tiny lanterns. The interesting thing about this phenomenon is that it occurs WITHOUT the presence of any catalysts such as platinum!
ken
About a year or two later all the "initiative" had to show was a few gas stations here and there that would pump "gasohol" into our tanks at a price higher than straight gasoline was selling for. I tried a tank and never experienced that much valve clatter in my life! Plus, I was actually getting LESS mileage per gallon with the gasohol (which was 75% gasoline and 25% ethyl alcohol derived from the fermentation of corn)!!!
To make hydrogen fueled technology a REALITY in OUR lifetimes will require a combined government and private sector investment in the TRILLIONS! I doubt if we'll ever see that kind of commitment...
As far as "cold fusion" is concerned...IF it takes place at all (which I doubt), then it would have to use some sort of bizarre quantum tunneling effect. Whenever an energetically unfavorable process if forced to take place, it tends to do so at a very slow rate. Thus, IF cold fusion does take place in nature or can be made to do so in a laboratory, then I would not expect it to be a practical solution to our global energy problems.
The spontaneous oxidation of organic materials at room temperatures is, however, a different matter altogether. There is a natural phenomena known as "fox fire" or "wil-o'-the wisp" (sp?) that can produce an odd reddish glowing flame near ground level in forests. I think it was discovered that it is due to the release of methane gas from rotting underground vegetation. Apparently, the gas seeps up throught the ground and begins slowly oxidizing and glowing. It has been the source of many folktales about haunted forests and "little people" who wander around dark, damp forests at night carrying tiny lanterns. The interesting thing about this phenomenon is that it occurs WITHOUT the presence of any catalysts such as platinum!
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: Encouraging
It sounds to me that that was just one initiative for one technology, and one that they should have been able to quickly and cheaply determine if it was worth the bother (and it sounds like no). If Congress passes all Bush's initiatives then in effect you have a multipronged research fund not unlike a diversified portfolio, so that you are guaranteed to win somewhere if it is possible win at all.
I'm not convinced that hydrogen is the way to go. It isn't a power source, it is a power storage mechanism, which needs a method of implementation and a source to charge it. It verifiably has the capacity for having a better power to weight ratio than gasoline, but IINM it has yet to be actually achieved cheap- and safe- ly. And it doesn't actually solve the problem of getting energy, you have to have gotten the energy elsewhere before you can use the hydrogen.
>As far as "cold fusion" is concerned...IF it takes place at all (which I doubt), then it would have to use some sort of bizarre quantum tunneling effect.<
This has been all over the net, they recently achieved that. It technically isn't cold insofar as the nuclei do move fast, but they aren't heated to go that fast, nor does the device require massive heat shielding. It operates at room temperature and much less than normal pressure, in a deuterium atmosphere (first fuel), activated by a pyroelectric crystal (lithium tantalate), some copper, tungsten, and uses a little erbium deuteride as the other fuel.
http://pesn.com/2005/04/28/6900088_UCLA_Cold_Fusion/
>I think it was discovered that it is due to the release of methane gas from rotting underground vegetation.<
I thought they called that swamp gas.
>The interesting thing about this phenomenon is that it occurs WITHOUT the presence of any catalysts such as platinum!<
I'm not sure what ignites it, but I'd guess the rotting vegetation gets hot like a spotaneously combusting compost heap.
I'm not convinced that hydrogen is the way to go. It isn't a power source, it is a power storage mechanism, which needs a method of implementation and a source to charge it. It verifiably has the capacity for having a better power to weight ratio than gasoline, but IINM it has yet to be actually achieved cheap- and safe- ly. And it doesn't actually solve the problem of getting energy, you have to have gotten the energy elsewhere before you can use the hydrogen.
>As far as "cold fusion" is concerned...IF it takes place at all (which I doubt), then it would have to use some sort of bizarre quantum tunneling effect.<
This has been all over the net, they recently achieved that. It technically isn't cold insofar as the nuclei do move fast, but they aren't heated to go that fast, nor does the device require massive heat shielding. It operates at room temperature and much less than normal pressure, in a deuterium atmosphere (first fuel), activated by a pyroelectric crystal (lithium tantalate), some copper, tungsten, and uses a little erbium deuteride as the other fuel.
http://pesn.com/2005/04/28/6900088_UCLA_Cold_Fusion/
>I think it was discovered that it is due to the release of methane gas from rotting underground vegetation.<
I thought they called that swamp gas.
>The interesting thing about this phenomenon is that it occurs WITHOUT the presence of any catalysts such as platinum!<
I'm not sure what ignites it, but I'd guess the rotting vegetation gets hot like a spotaneously combusting compost heap.
Disclaimer: I reserve the right not to know what I'm talking about and not to mention this possibility in my posts. This disclaimer also applies to sentences I claim are quotes from anybody, including me.
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ken_behrendt
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re: Encouraging
The biggest advantage I see with hydrogen power is that when it is re-oxidized to generate heat or electricity, the only "exhaust" is water vapor...no carbon monoxide or dioxide to mess up the atmosphere.
You are quite right, though, we STILL need a cheap, non-polluting source of electrical energy to extract the hydrogen from water in the first place. That implies solar energy. So, we need to have a massive solar energy infrastructure coupled with plants that will use the power to electrolyze water into hydrogen and oxygen. The oxygen can be vented to the atmosphere while the hydrogen is distributed via gas pipe lines to homes, industry, and filling stations for fuel cell powered cars. All VERY expensive infrastructure requirements.
Some people want to use nuclear power generated electricity to carry out the extraction of the hydrogen from water or even easier from petroleum hydrocarbons. I am opposed to both of these options. We need LESS nuclear power and a complete move away from any use of fossil fuels. But, perhaps, in the, hopefully, shortest possible interim until we can go completely solar, these still undesirable options can be used.
I think the complete conversion of our planet to a global hydrogen powered technology will be a process that could, even with a committed "crash" program, take several decades. It will do little to remedy the immediate energy problems the world faces. For these we need to try to conserve the use of the remaining supply of fossil fuels by improving the efficiency of our current technology.
Of course, I am assuming in the above that there are no breakthroughs in the free energy field. If, however, there are some serious breakthroughs in FE, then perhaps the transition to a "hydrogen economy" could be greatly shortened.
ken
You are quite right, though, we STILL need a cheap, non-polluting source of electrical energy to extract the hydrogen from water in the first place. That implies solar energy. So, we need to have a massive solar energy infrastructure coupled with plants that will use the power to electrolyze water into hydrogen and oxygen. The oxygen can be vented to the atmosphere while the hydrogen is distributed via gas pipe lines to homes, industry, and filling stations for fuel cell powered cars. All VERY expensive infrastructure requirements.
Some people want to use nuclear power generated electricity to carry out the extraction of the hydrogen from water or even easier from petroleum hydrocarbons. I am opposed to both of these options. We need LESS nuclear power and a complete move away from any use of fossil fuels. But, perhaps, in the, hopefully, shortest possible interim until we can go completely solar, these still undesirable options can be used.
I think the complete conversion of our planet to a global hydrogen powered technology will be a process that could, even with a committed "crash" program, take several decades. It will do little to remedy the immediate energy problems the world faces. For these we need to try to conserve the use of the remaining supply of fossil fuels by improving the efficiency of our current technology.
Of course, I am assuming in the above that there are no breakthroughs in the free energy field. If, however, there are some serious breakthroughs in FE, then perhaps the transition to a "hydrogen economy" could be greatly shortened.
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
re: Encouraging
>or even easier from petroleum hydrocarbons<
I heard about that and it's an aweful idea, I can't believe they're considering it. The 'deoxidizing' of water is not 100% efficient, so you'll end up making more pollution by using hydrogen as a middle man than we're making now when just using the petroleum directly.
I heard about that and it's an aweful idea, I can't believe they're considering it. The 'deoxidizing' of water is not 100% efficient, so you'll end up making more pollution by using hydrogen as a middle man than we're making now when just using the petroleum directly.
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ken_behrendt
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re: Encouraging
The idea is that the hydrogen to carbon chemical bond in hydrocarbons requires less energy input to break than the hydrogen to oxygen chemical bond in water...therefore we're supposed to save on the amount of input energy per volume of hydrogen gas liberated if we use petroleum as the source of hydrogen rather than water. How this is supposed to make us "independent" of fossil fuels is beyond me!
ken
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
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bluesgtr44
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re: Encouraging
OK, from what I"ve read so far...the best avenue seems to be PIMAN's PFM direction. I am surprised that no politician has approached this before...I guess it would just be to honest of an approach. Man, I am still laughing at that one, PIMAN.
Steve
Steve
Finding the right solution...is usually a function of asking the right questions. -A. Einstein
re: Encouraging
Methane and/or natural gas are one and the same. It can come from under ground or be produced in a compost pile. Animal and human waste is a good source.
I lack research in this area, but have been told that there is a Generating plant on line, connected to the grid in California. It is run by methane collected from local dairy cow manure. China and India are said to be involved with this energy approach in a big way.
Ralph
I lack research in this area, but have been told that there is a Generating plant on line, connected to the grid in California. It is run by methane collected from local dairy cow manure. China and India are said to be involved with this energy approach in a big way.
Ralph
re: Encouraging
Glad to oblige on the humor, Steve.
And might I follow that up with...
Jonathan, I might have read a blurb about the cold fusion method you mentioned. It sounds legit. I will seek.
" in a deuterium atmosphere (first fuel), activated by a pyroelectric crystal (lithium tantalate), some copper, tungsten, and uses a little erbium deuteride as the other fuel."
I can't help but grin when I see '(Di) lithium tantalate crystals' as an ingredient in cold fusion.
"Aye, Captin', I'm givinn aier awl shays gahht! The dilithium crystals are nealrly drained. Shay's liable teu fly apalrt. It'll take a mirlacle, or, a bootel of me special occasion scotch, aaay laddie."
Piece.
PIMAN
And might I follow that up with...
Jonathan, I might have read a blurb about the cold fusion method you mentioned. It sounds legit. I will seek.
" in a deuterium atmosphere (first fuel), activated by a pyroelectric crystal (lithium tantalate), some copper, tungsten, and uses a little erbium deuteride as the other fuel."
I can't help but grin when I see '(Di) lithium tantalate crystals' as an ingredient in cold fusion.
"Aye, Captin', I'm givinn aier awl shays gahht! The dilithium crystals are nealrly drained. Shay's liable teu fly apalrt. It'll take a mirlacle, or, a bootel of me special occasion scotch, aaay laddie."
Piece.
PIMAN
The Sky is the Limit