Besslers Codes

[Fletcher]

Thanks Oystein.

If the same geometric patterns are appearing again & again albeit in different dimensions [narrow or wide etc] then they convey an important message, as you have observed - their structure & repeatability ensures the message cannot be missed or misinterpreted.

If the objects portrayed or deduced have the ability to open & close then I assume two things.

1. that the basic mech is also hidden in the MT toy's page ?

2. that the mechanism is known to modern engineers, albeit for a different use than Bessler employed it for ?

You inspire me by your rigorous & objective approach that at last an end may be in sight - congratulations !

[hex02a]

Hi Oystein

First of all congratulations I really think your on the correct path.

I have also been looking at the clues Bessler left mainly in his drawings and found many clues which occur time and time again but have never been able to connect the dots.

The main clues appear to reference a ratio, this ratio occurs in many of his drawing toys page,AP wheel,MT etc. and is connected to geometric patterns.
It can mathematically calculated to show why Bessler placed things in a certain place and of a certain size.

He also repeats the same two angles many times and the difference between them.

I assumed that the clues I have found were to do with the machine but perhaps it was to do with the coding system. Have you found anything similar?.

Anyway Good Luck I hope you solve this puzzle so I can get some sleep and also people will not think I am quite so crazy :-)

Terry

[Grimer]

Hi Oystein ..

FWIW I have the utmost faith in you & your sincerity, & that you have found undeniable & provable hidden codes etc.

I never had enough interest, ability or patience, in this line of research, to undertake it myself but always hoped dedicated searchers such as yourself, or dax, or JC etc, would one day come up trumps & break the ciphers & finally give an unequivocal steer in a right direction to solving this mechanical mystery.

I look forward to your book & the discussions around your findings, & of course, those mechanisms.

I do have some questions if you don't mind !

You have said previously you have simmed the basic mechanics in WM2D & that a single mech behaved as you expected - I take it to mean that a physical build of the same mech had performance the same or similar to the sim model & there were no comparison surprises ?

Using multiple mechs in a sim 'interconnected' so one affects all others etc, have you seen sim evidence that these mechs will provide a mechanical solution to gravity PM ?

N.B. I know well that you are experienced & not likely to be easily fooled into false hope where none might actually exist, with mechanical devices !

So, in my mind the final question is ... has the ciphers & codes revealed Bessler's mechanism(s) to the solution to gravity PM, or has he wowed us with his knowledge of ciphers & codes (retrospectively engineered into his writings & drawings) for his [& our] amusement & to legitimize his own educated background ?

Your thoughts are appreciated.

ETA: my bad, didn't check which thread Grimer had posted into - this post probably belongs in another thread so sorry to have taken it off-topic.

Hi, I have said that I built one mechanism in real life and tested its behavior. I have decided not to spend time running this in a SIM, because it is pretty hard to make as all part interact and funny thing started to "tear apart" etc. and anyway I will not be sure if a SIM will work on a true PM principle. So I decided that my time is used on deciphering all of Bessler material and then use the natural manual calculation of torque in positions. Those traditional calculations show a surplus of force in one direction, as far as I am able to conclude.

The reason I have dug those Bessler's Codes really to the bottom is just as you suggest, to be able to conclude without any doubt. There are no way to miss understand Bessler's method. It is now so clear that people not knowing of Bessler can conclude that the cipher are correct in some tenth of minutes. (Tried it on two people the last days) With the method, the same mechanical mechanism appear with all its levers and joints in over a handful of pages, and in several "versions". Some are wider and some more narrow. It seems, the more narrow, the slower the RPM. Meaning that the Kassel-related solutions are the most narrow. It must be because they use a longer time to "close".

It also appear in a simpler version witch is more like a simple geometrical "patent", connected to his name/change etc. Other places he show a special figure showing the basic secret mechanism. This mechanism is what he call "the devil" and he also call it "the hero" in other places.

The text ciphers in AP tell how those mechanisms are connected to each other by adding converted words upon the same geometric solutions. and also naming some parts and describing actions. The most are a set of 6-7 words in one group.

One friend not knowing of Bessler looked at the book with me last weekend and he just said, this is crazy, shaking his head, laughing and said Bessler was brilliant etc and there are are no way this is speculations and said that even without a running machine this book would be extremely exiting and educational for many readers. Also important to history to know of these beautiful methods and such a special person.

I have to admit you argue a very plausible case. The release of 3rd derivative angular momentum energy from simple systems such as falling chimneys does suggest the kind of mechanical set-up you refer to. A kind of Roberval Balance in reverse. It also lends weight to RAR.

If the information were mine I would reveal it as soon as possible as I wouldn't want to be responsible for the African children who die due my delaying the developments of gravity driven pumps. I would consider their need came before my self-glorification and lust for filthy lucre.

I'd remember those words of Luke's gospel.

And he spoke a similitude to them, saying: The land of a certain
rich man brought forth plenty of fruits.

And he thought within himself, saying: What shall I do, because
I have no room where to bestow my fruits?

And he said: This will I do: I will pull down my barns and will
build greater: and into them will I gather all things that are grown to
me and my goods.

And I will say to my soul: Soul, thou hast much goods laid up
for many years. Take thy rest: eat, drink, make good cheer.

But God said to him: Thou fool, this night do they require thy
soul of thee. And whose shall those things be which thou hast provided?

I wouldn't want to fall to my death from an unfinished windmill.

[Oystein]

Thanks Oystein.

If the same geometric patterns are appearing again & again albeit in different dimensions [narrow or wide etc] then they convey an important message, as you have observed - their structure & repeatability ensures the message cannot be missed or misinterpreted.

If the objects portrayed or deduced have the ability to open & close then I assume two things.

1. that the basic mech is also hidden in the MT toy's page ?

2. that the mechanism is known to modern engineers, albeit for a different use than Bessler employed it for ?

You inspire me by your rigorous & objective approach that at last an end may be in sight - congratulations !

Yes, also in the toypage. But in the toypage, one item is to be moved a little to complete the whole "formula" by 100% accuracy. By the way, he also writes that one must "rearrange" the items, so it is "allowed" even though I don`t like it. There are several levels of information/analogies in the toypage. But many of the other (non geometrical/mathematical) is interpretations and left out of the book.

The mechanism itself is not known to modern or 1700s science, (the way it is arranged and applied), but the "devil" or "hero" mechanism that have to be there to solve the puzzle, is known!. And was certainly known to organbuilders in the 1700s. Even some of this forum members have drawn the basic "devil"mechanism. I have seen 1 drawing of it in the Besslerwheel archives.

[Grimer]

"but the 'devil' or 'hero' mechanism that have to be there to solve the puzzle, is known!"

I've often thought Bessler must have sold his soul to the devil who his worshippers like to think of as a hero.

Presumably you've done the same.

[Oystein]

lol ?

I think Bessler became more of a christian after he understood his inventions resemblance to the Devil. I don`t think Bessler was worshiping the devil, but I think he actually was afraid that the invention was "a evil invention", thus becoming obsessed with making peace with God.

[Grimer]

You are certainly possessed by a clever devil - but your avatar gives you away.

[daxwc]

Grimer

Presumably you've done the same.

Frank if you had found the secret, it would have been because you sold your soul to the Devil?

[justsomeone]

Quote from Oystein :

As an example, the translations or the re-drawn versions of MT etc. contain no concrete information that can be used to solve or prove the mystery.

I hope you are saying that " with your method " no concrete information can be used.

What happens if your build stays stationary?

Do you believe you have all the information needed to build a runner?

[daxwc]

It is impossible for anybody to give an opinion Oystein until you release more information. I know you are on the road to something, but have some concerns as to the mechanical outcome as related to the wheel.

1)Why put the secret of the wheel in AP when he is still actively trying to sell the wheel and paranoid?

2)Can one come up with the mechanical solution from AP alone?

3) Does Bessler use the codes at all in DT?

4)Why tie a code to MT from AP when MT wasn’t made yet and would take years to carve all the drawings.

[Unbalanced]

Hei Oysten,

A picture being worth a thousand words,

is it possible for you to post one example of the 10-15 occurances of the mechanism you have uncovered? Perhaps just a partial example?

I am most interested in:

1) Where / what you have decided are definitive points (within the text) to start and or stop a line?

2) How you have decided upon order, I.e, in connecting the dots?

3) Were these points, words, Xs, capital letters, double spaces etc?

4) Were each of these occurances similar or exactly the same? By this I mean if JB used random capitals on one page was there another example of points on other pages?

If you feel as though this would be too soon to reveal so much, could you at least give us the page number where you first discovered this posibility?

[Oystein]

Everything has to do with everything. We will never find out when he started writing MT, but it really does not matter. You don`t need the one to solve the other, there are only confirmations and small pieces that will either confirm you are correct, or maybe lead you easier on the way. All Bessler published had some hidden consistent information in common, no matter what came first. I have not studied the DT text in detail yet, but the drawings are full.

MT was handed to the state to vindicate him "post mortally", and it will also make it easier solve AP. But you don`t NEED MT to solve AP! And the secret is better hidden without MT. Some parts of MT could have been produced both before, during and/or after AP was published. And some of the pages was purely added in MT at a late stage to give away some steps into the codes "for free".

Yes, you will also find the mechanism itself in AP.

Think of it this way: If Bessler want to prove his original rights to an invention, he MUST produce material where there are no room to "make up" stuff. If I print/type wrong, then there are a valid place to do so. Also First and last pages etc. Or a solution in one page can point to another page number. But never just appear random or alone, and must be repeated at least one more time!! Or else people might say.... you just made that up didn`t you?

I will give you some hints for free:

Print errors
First pages
Last pages
Pages with special graphics
Pages with special font-combinations.
Double pages. (Codes on the left page ? so they are on the right too)
If:"System 1" on the left, then "system 2" is on the right, with a predefined relation to each other. (Can`t be made up.)

Those "rules" make it almost impossible to make up things as you go.
So Bessler could define up front witch pages kept info. in a trial about rights.

[Grimer]

Grimer

Presumably you've done the same.

Frank if you had found the secret, it would have been because you sold your soul to the Devil?

My research is not based on diabolical freemasonry involving inverted crosses.

Edit. I've just noticed that Øystein has removed his avatar.

I wonder why. Gives the game away, perhaps?

[Oystein]

By the way Grimer, care to tell a little about your research?

Are you having any positive results or insights, and what kind of approach do you use? etc?

[Grimer]

Hi Oystein

First of all congratulations I really think your on the correct path.

I have also been looking at the clues Bessler left mainly in his drawings and found many clues which occur time and time again but have never been able to connect the dots.

The main clues appear to reference a ratio, this ratio occurs in many of his drawing toys page,AP wheel,MT etc. and is connected to geometric patterns.
It can mathematically calculated to show why Bessler placed things in a certain place and of a certain size.

He also repeats the same two angles many times and the difference between them.

I assumed that the clues I have found were to do with the machine but perhaps it was to do with the coding system. Have you found anything similar?.

Anyway Good Luck I hope you solve this puzzle so I can get some sleep and also people will not think I am quite so crazy :-)

Terry

Joined: 27 Aug 2007 - First post today.

That must be some kind of record.

edit:

hex

verb (used with object)
1.
to bewitch; practice witchcraft on: He was accused of hexing his neighbours' cows because they suddenly stopped giving milk.

noun
1.
spell; charm: With all this rain, somebody must have put a hex on our picnic.

2.
a witch.