Another claim to a working device...

[Grimer]

Above shows the path of the bob as it tacks steadily into the gravitational wind.

I know a lot of members don't like me using the analogy of a vertical wind to represent gravity.

However, I find it extremely useful and intend to continue using it regardless.

Just as in sailing we are dealing with two media, the active force of the gravitational wind
and the passive force of the earth reaction which is analogous to the passive force of the sea
reaction on the keel of a yacht.

Of course the sea can also exhibit active forces when currents are present.
This makes things more complicated for the air-sea system. In our case things like the wheel
axle are generally stationary with respect to the high inertia earth.

I know that if we have two media in relative movement there is always a way to extract
energy from that movement. The trick is to find out how to do it in quantity and on a
continuous basis.

[Tarsier79]

Grimer

I can't let incorrect information and blatent stupidity go unchecked. Why can't you just visualise gravity for what it is.... gravity.

There is no way to compare gravity to wind, as they are different components of the equation. It is like saying: "compare mount everest to an electron". There are electrons in mount everest, but the electrons are part of the building blocks that make the components mount everest is made from.

Let me try to normalise your comparison.

Gravity is a force. Wind is not! Wind is however driven by a pressure differential. Therefor, IMO gravity could be compared to a constant pressure gradient (there are also many problems with this comparison)

Moving further down the line. Wind is the molecules of air with mass doing the work on the sailing boat, providing the differential against the sea. This IMO may loosely be compared with weights in a gravity engine losing potential. It's differential is against a fixed reference.

The sailboat is the lever. The air molecules (Mass losing PE) pushes against the sail( lever) and transfers part of its energy. The sailboat can move against the wind provided there is more air constantly giving up its energy, just as a lever/mechanism can move against gravity, providing total system mass keeps giving up its energy, in PE.

The boat saiilng is not a gain in energy of any type. I doubt it is even a gain of "PE" comparing the mass of the air molecules and the distance travelled vs the mass of the boat, and the distance it makes up. Comparing this, it is like dropping 4 pounds, and lifting 1, saying "but look, it is moving against gravity!"

The term "gravity wind" makes as much sense as comparing a velocity to a vector.

Has it clicked yet? Where is that light bulb?

[Grimer]

I'm glad to see it provokes such strong feelings. That must mean I'm on the right track. ;-)

[Tarsier79]

I don't believe your POP will produce the results you want, so you being on the right or wrong track is irrelevant. Your design shouldn't take too much to set up. You should forge ahead and do the build.

Tell me what you think about my comparison of wind to falling mass.

[Unbalanced]

Observation and Deductions on the RAR Gravity Motor

I do not have time to repost the various official photos I refer to here so to make sense of this you will have to refer to the photos on http://www.rarenergia.com.br/

There are 16 articulating arms or two sets of eight arms joined between
the 8th and 9th crank by what appears in the official photo #10 as a Morse Chain Coupler or two parallel sprockets that are or will be joined by a double chain.

IMO, if this devise is a runner, that it could feasibly have run as early as photo #18 with just 8 of the articulating arms arranged in their most basic configuration. Photo #23 may show a runner in the 16 arm configuration.

Much of the later experimentation (refinement) may have been carried out on just the last 8 arms to be assembled as may be illustrated in photo 39 through photo 45.

The most recent photos indicate that this is a unidirectional devise as witnessed by the various hooking mechanisms and the triangular caps installed on the upper-outboard ends of the " unpainted, weighted titter-totters."

IMO, if this devise was able to run on the initial 8 or 16 arm configuration as seen in photos 18 and 23, it may very well have been bidirectional.

As an aside, if we wish to discuss the finer points of this devise it may behoove us to agree on some parameters such as the arms being numbered from 1 to 16 starting at the back of the room and perhaps giving names to some of the more obvious parts.

[Unbalanced]

Tarsier79

I look forward to seeing the reaction of the investors to spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on a giant contraption that never had a chance of self motivation, or overunity, with promises of "we just need to change one little thing."

In this instance the "investors" are the US tax payers. Under IRS Code 41
The Research and Experimentation Tax Credit an entity can write 14% of the cost of renewable energy research. We should all be keeping our receipts for all those wheel parts and noting the hours spent here in collaboration. Let me see, what's an hour of my time worth? Not much these days, I fear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_& ... Tax_Credit

[eccentrically1]

under exclusions for qualified research: reverse engineering
would that be what we're doing?

[Unbalanced]

I noticed something interesting this morning. It appears that there is a large generator and or an industrial size motor that appears to be in the correct location to be connected to the sprockets that are positioned half way down the main drive shaft.

All along, I thought that they would mount this to either end of the main shaft and was wondering why this shaft didn't have a keyway for the purpose.

If this devise didn't run, why install a generator?

It seems more likely that this is a large motor but I will reserve judgment until such time as all the facts are known.

[Grimer]

I've prepared the above diagram showing where some of the gravitational potential gets stored as strain energy when the pendulum swings from 8 to 6.

More on this topic later.

The generation of a bending couple under the action of gravity and the consequent input of rotational strain energy (conservation of angular momentum energy) gives us an understanding of why the circular pendulum has a slower period than the brachistochrone pendulum.

Because some of the gravitational energy of the falling arm is being bled off into strain energy the arm is effectively experiencing a reduced downwards acceleration.

The concept of a falling weight experiencing a reduced acceleration is neatly illustrated by a pulley example.

Consider a overhead frictionless pulley with a 32 pound weight hanging down on one side and a one pound weight hanging down on the other.

The acceleration of the 32 pound weight will be reduced from the free fall acceleration of 32 ft/sec to 31 ft per second because some of the gravitational energy is bled off into raising the 1 lb weight.

This example is easy to understand because both movements are visible and involve vertical change in gravitational potential.

The bending of a pendulum shaft on the other hand is below the threshold of perception and involves transducing one form of energy (gravitational potential) into another (strain energy).

The beauty of strain energy is that its mass is insignificant and therefore one can move it around in a gravitational field without gravity being involved.

In the Proof of Principle example the strain energy was input between 8 and 6, then output between 6 and 4. The shaft absorbed gravitational energy on the downward swing and released it on the upward swing.

Having got the tiger by the tale with the Point of Principle one can go on to think about the Roberval Balance and the stresses involved. By including diagonal members one can see that a balancing tension and compression is involved. In other words shear. So we need a mechanism which absorbs the shear energy generated between two weights at different radii as shear stress on one side of the main axis and releases it to do work on the other.

........The art of reasoning consists in getting hold of the
........subject at the right end, of seizing the few general
........ideas that illuminate the whole, and of persistently
........organizing all subsidiary facts around them.
........Nobody can be a good reasoner unless he has realized the
........importance of getting hold of the big ideas and
........hanging onto them like grim death .

........A.N.Whitehead

........Presidential Address to the London Branch of the
........Mathematical Association., 1914

[Tarsier79]

Grimer, I think you might be mistaking energy for stress. Energy contains force and distance, and the distance is a very important part.

[Grimer]

Stress contains force and distance. The distance is called strain. The energy is called strain energy.

[justalabrat]

Looks like the web site is gone!

[Furcurequs]

It still works for me.

http://rarenergia.com.br

Dwayne

[jim_mich]

It seems their site was down a little while ago.

[azimuthe]

The Patent !!
http://www.google.com/patents/US20130256066