The ultimate shaggy dog story...

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MrVibrating
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The ultimate shaggy dog story...

Post by MrVibrating »

Will OU destroy the universe?


Yesterday i read something that re-awakened my worst-case fears, regarding what we're aiming to achieve here...

But to appreciate my concerns, we must first go back to basics..


Allegations of confusing force and energy are a popular canard of the pseudosceptic crew, out here on the fringe. Yet we must also acknowledge that quantum mechanics does indeed explain force in terms of energy exchanges.

The class of particles known as 'elementary bosons' are the carriers, or 'mediators', of (it is believed) all four fundamental forces (this is what's 'elementary' about them). Hence, photons and virtual photons mediate the EM force, W and Z bosons mediate the weak nuclear force, gluons, the strong force, and, provisionally (they've yet to be experimentally confirmed), gravitons (or some similar particle) would mediate the gravitational force.

This lower-level particle zoo doesn't exactly supercede nor contradict the higher-level models, wherein EM force is a relativistic effect between charges in motion, gravity is a curvature of spacetime, and nuclear transitions are governed by probabilities of the wavefunction, etc.. Rather, they form a parallel realm of understanding, and are actually essential in reconciling everything else together; the layers of our universe can be built up from a series of branching dichotomies, each substrate dependent upon the level below.. so, in the first instance, there's only two types of particle in the universe: fermions, and our aforementioned bosons.

This is a perhaps surprising base level of simplicity underlying something so complex as a universe.. just two types of particle? Really? Yet this is the inescapable conclusion and consequence of something called the Pauli exclusion principle.

The principle delineates fermions from bosons in terms of a property called 'spin'. Spin can be thought of as ambient angular momentum. It's not momentum in the classical sense, being independent of mass, however it is like mass in that it, too, is a fundamental property of particles, along with charge etc. It comes in units of h-bar (derived from Planck's constant), and is apportioned between particles in either full or half measures, thus all of the most fundamental, basic, particles are fermions, and are so designated by virtue of having half-spin values. So, first off, we might start with electrons, the elementary units of charge, which all have half spin. This spin has dimensions and direction, and this is why we have paired orbitals or 'shells' surrounding atomic nuclei - an 'up' spin electron pairs most comfortably (ie. assumes a minimal energy state) alongside a 'downspin' electron. They're both identical, but their orientations are flipped relative to each other - they're oriented in opposite directions. It is also intriguing to note that one complete revolution in this spin plane requires 720° of rotation in our traditional 3-space...

It might also be noted at this point, if only as an aside, that there's an apparent paradox here in defining electrons as the fundamental units of charge - certainly, they're elementary charge carriers from our perspective, and there is no known way an electron can be dissassembled into constituent parts. Yet, despite this, charge is also a common property of other fundamental particles, especially other fermions like the quarks - which themselves, cannot be broken down into simpler parts, and which definitely aren't made of electrons. How, then, can the electron be the exclusive arbiter of charge when charge per se is also common to particles not made of electrons? Dig deep enough into the standard model, and the cracks start to appear in the whole artifice.. there can be no paradoxes, and yet the whole shebang is derived from first principles and substantiated by concrete experiments as far as is currently possible. The point is, simply, that when we get to the edge of what's known, there's a daunting precipice of unknown unknowns before us... wherein charge can somehow be more fundamental than its supposedly elementary carrier particle, just for example..

But i digress...


So, we have fermions, and bosons. If we go back in time to the earliest moments of the universe, at the very first instant matter and energy could be differentiated, there is nought but fermions and bosons; specifically, a quark-gluon plasma.

So, what is this Pauli exclusion principle, and what's spin got to do with it?

We've noted that fermions are distinguished by having half-spin values, (.5, 1.5, 2.5 (hypothetically) and so on), and accordingly, bosons have whole-number spin values, AKA 'integer spin'. So the venerable photon, for instance, has a spin value of 1. But what do these values actually mean, in practice? This is where the Pauli exclusion principle comes to bear: integer spin particles can all occupy a shared quantum state. This means the activity and evolution of any number of them, can be mashed together; they can all be made coherent and described by the same shared wavefunction. Lasers and masers are one such example of this - the quantum states of many disparate photons are being corralled into a unified superposition from all possible states.

Fermions however, with their half spins, are fundamentally incapable of attaining these superposition states - they simply cannot be squashed together. Squeeze atomic matter together with enough force, and electrons will merge with protons to produce neutrons before they merge with other electrons (this is where neutron stars come from).

But besides forming 20km-wide neutrons in space, this Pauli exclusion principle affords fermions certain other possibilities - for instance, if we force two up-spin or two down-spin electrons together, against their mutual repulsion, they'll eventually merge to form a boson - how's that for a get-out clause? They're only dissallowed from occupying superpositions because they have half-spins, but if, say, two up-spin electrons are forced together and allowed to form a stable state, they'll pair up to combine their two half-spins into a new particle having spin 1 - effectively, jumping the exclusion barrier and forming a boson instead. An example of this type of phase-transition is Cooper-pairing in low-temp superconductivity.

Elementary bosons, however, are not and cannot be divided into fermions - they're fundamental building blocks in and of themselves, born from the vacuum.

The point of this briefest foray into the underbelly of the standard model is to drive home the fact that the universe we see around us - all of the solid matter - is made up of fermions, particularly the quark family of baryons, hence we can call all the visible stuff 'baryonic matter', whereas all of the forces acting between this stuff, along with the light we see emanating from it, is made up of bosons.


In a nutshell, fermions are what it is, and bosons are what it's doing.



So putting all of this into concrete examples, consider a simple magnetic interaction, wherein two magnets attract together, then are drawn apart back to their starting points.

The force pulling them together is a 'flux' of particle exchanges - this boson flux, between fermions (the magnet's polarised electrons), is what the magnetic field is. The force being manifested within the field is made up of real energy exchanges, where virtual photons are popping out of the vacuum and interacting with the orbital electron charges, swapping units of angular momentum with them. This ambient momentum from the vacuum has a positive or negative sign, depending on the direction of travel with respect to the force vector. So when the magnets are being mutually drawn together, they're exchanging positively-signed angular momentum with the vacuum, and when we draw them apart the sign flips to negative.

Hence for one complete interaction like this, we have exchanged equal proportions of both + and - signed momentum with the vacuum - the interaction has been symmetrical in both classical and quantum domains.

Also, note well, that these virtual photons do NOT travel between electrons - their directions, for the fleeting instant of their lives, are completely random - so they don't fly between other particles like little messengers on a mission. Rather, they appear spontaneously out of the vacuum, before disappearing again just as suddenly, within an infinitesimally short duration. Magnets don't 'radiate' virtual photons, they merely co-opt the flux of virtual particles that is ordinarily broiling out of the vacuum all around us, everywhere, always. The vacuum has a non-zero potential energy, and by virtue of Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, there's a non-zero chance of a photon of any wavelength appearing anywhere at any time... hence they do, and will interact accordingly with any charges they encounter. Hence, the mediator is really the vacuum itself, rather than the individual particles enacting the trades.

There's another way to illustrate the point i'm driving at - that baryonic matter doesn't interact with itself, not directly anyway, but rather via the mediation of ghostly virtual bosons fizzing in and out of the vacuum all around us - and it's known as Faraday's paradox.

Faraday's paradox is a simple experimental setup, wherein we have a disc magnet, polarised axially with a pole on each face, as well as two copper discs of the same dimensions as the magnet.

So we make a magnet sandwich, with the magnet nestled inside the two copper discs, and attach this to a metal co-axle shaft, allowing us to spin the magnet and discs independently from each other. Finally, we attach the terminals of a multimeter to either end of the shaft, or perhaps a light electric load such as a bulb or DC motor.

We can then make three observations:

1) when the copper discs spin, but the magnet is held stationary, current flows.

2) when the magnet spins, but the copper disks don't, no current flows.

3) finally, when all three spin together, current again flows.


It puzzled Faraday and it at first seems just as puzzling to us - surely condition 2 is perfectly analogous to condition 1, since motion is merely relative, no? And condition 3 makes no sense at all, since nothing's moving relative to anything else - all three elements are at equal speed!


The resolution of the paradox, is the realisation that the magnetic field is, however surprisingly, NOT a property of the magnet supposedly possessing and causing it!

Magnets don't have magnetic fields? How can this be? Evidently, the magnetic field has its own reference frame, independent of everything else we can see going on around it - and it is, of course, that of the vacuum activity. Current flows when a conductor moves in a magnetic field, but the 'stuff' of that field is the vacuum's activity, and it is motion relative to it that induces the flow of electrons.

Charges like electrons don't interact directly with each other, instead they react with the vacuum, which reacts back at them. The vacuum is the intermediary interlocutor in everything! The vacuum's incessant hive of activity is the glue cementing every atom and molecule of our bodies together! This vacuum activity is a part of us, a part of everything, that everything depends upon.

Before moving on to more weighty matters, then, let us just note one more implication here - what would be the consequence of an asymmetric magnetic interaction - ie. one where more or less positive or negative-signed ambient momentum is exchanged with the vacuum, leaving it with a deficit and us with a nice bonus? What might this change, in the greater balance of things?

Presumably, such asymmetric interactions are not common in nature (indeed most folk believe they're impossible, if mistakenly). But considering that energy is, ultimately, conserved this way, we've altered a property termed 'homeostasis' - a dynamic equilibrium, a stable balance of rates of change. What if the measured value of the fine structure constant, alpha, is a direct function of this homeostasis between the vacuum potential and the thermodynamic realm? Would the unconstrained adoption of magnetic OU - perhaps beyond Earth's bounds, into the future - eventually cause a perturbation in this homeostasis, ie. a drift in the local value of alpha?

If the local flux of vacuum-to-thermodynamic energies (or vice versa) were to change significantly from the global (ie. system-wide) balance, we might envision this reduced alpha to propagate outwards from its sphere of origin, thus initiating an effective inflow of energy as the global system settles into a new equilibrium. What might be the repercussions of such regauging transitions? What might be the local consequences of a reduced magnetic constant? Straight away we would have to conclude that the magic numbers for stable nuclei will be transposed - stuff that was stable will begin decaying, and vice versa. Matter will initially inflate, before the influx of more energy from outside the depleted zone causes a subsequent re-compression. Perhaps such waves will be so small as to be unnoticeable, but then again maybe the tiniest wobble could have reverberations beyond the catastrophic...

So, basically, all of the above points apply equally to mass / gravity / inertial interactions. An asymmetric inertial interaction, in particular, would seem to have similar regauging implications for the Higgs field...


There was a time, before the physics were better understood, when there was a non-zero risk that a fission explosion could run amok, perhaps even igniting the atmosphere or engulfing the whole planet. Only later did we learn that such fears were ungrounded. But the work was done, such that the risk had been virtually eliminated prior to the first atomic tests.

Out here on the fringe however, we have no such certainties. It's just the nature of the field that those most likely to strike OU are the least qualified or even motivated to ascertain its safety.

I've been voicing this concern for some years now, and doubtless i'm trying to count angels (or demons!?) dancing on the head of a pin.

A hypothetical pin, in most folks' reckoning.

Still, the reason i've been motivated to churn all of this up again is an article that appeared in yesterday's PhysOrg, entitled "Collapse of the universe is closer than ever before":

http://phys.org/news/2013-12-collapse-u ... loser.html

..which describes one apparently widely accepted angle on precisely what may result from a local depletion of the strength of the Higgs interaction, and thus the effective value of mass.



Previously, i'd only really been concerned about accidentally wiping out the earth, or perhaps the local stellar neighborhood, at worst.

However, it now appears that i wasn't nearly pessimistic enough.


The theory posits a spectacular phase-transition, massively boosting the value of eventually all mass in the universe, in an expanding bubble racing outwards from the vicinity of the initial deficit. Essentially, such a deficit would act as the seed for a kind of system-wide and unstoppable crystalisation process. Quote:
"The phase transition in the universe will happen if a bubble is created where the Higgs-field associated with the Higgs-particle reaches a different value than the rest of the universe. If this new value results in lower energy and if the bubble is large enough, the bubble will expand at the speed of light in all directions. All elementary particles inside the bubble will reach a mass, that is much heavier than if they were outside the bubble, and thus they will be pulled together and form supermassive centers."
Consider the Fermi paradox, the riddle all the missing alien civilisations, and in light of that variable in the Drake equation denoting the likelihood of a sufficiently advanced intelligence destroying itself; and it all gels with the anthropic principle, of why the constants have their measured values...

Maybe we dodged a bullet, with Bessler keeping schtum and no one sussing it for three centuries..

Maybe any given universe only lasts so long, until a single sentience grows 'smart' enough to inadvertently destroy it?

Maybe the fundamental constants are amenable to life precisely because the universe is simply waiting for us to light the touchpaper on the next cycle?

Maybe the interwebs was the last piece of the jigsaw and the final nail in our collective coffin? There's basically F/A chance of establishing that OU won't destroy the universe before the 'net allows us to promulgate its global and irreversible uptake.

Are we earnestly racing blithely towards the means of our own demise? Doesn't the mere possibility seem like a preposterous, irrelevant distraction? Surely OU means truly FREE energy, conservation of energy will be disproven, there'll be no unforeseen consequences, and we'll all live happily ever after in a booming free energy economy of infinite exponential growth?

Again, you've gotta ask yourself if any of us are really qualified to be bringing such responsibilities to bear... the Manhattan project this is not..


So what can we do, as the would-be custodians of such responsibility (whether we even believe it or not) to address what clearly remains a decidedly non-zero risk? What could we do, once the genie's out of the bottle?

The last thing we want to do is bury OU - perhaps humanity's (and maybe life in the cosmos's) best guarantee of long-term survival. But the very VERY last and Final Thing We Want To Do is make everything everywhere two orders of magnitude heavier, either. Dilemma, eh..?

In the parable of Chicken-Licken, the eponymous hero gets eaten by Fox-Lox before he can tell the king the sky is falling in. Thus we never learn whether or not the next day the king visited the wood, whereupon a 15lb acorn fell on his head, killing him outright...


Finally, if you found any of these thoughts sobering, or even made it this far, you're probably not drinking enough. Either way, procrastination may be the only thing keeping us all alive... Hic...

Nite nite fellow universe killers, and sweet dreams... xxx
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re: The ultimate shaggy dog story...

Post by justalabrat »

Wow MrVibrating, that post just blew me away! Not just the context but all of it, the grammar, syntax , punctuation it was just a thing of beauty! I spend hours a day reading mindless stuff on the internet, this was truly a diamond in the ruff!

You must write words for a living, if you don't you should!
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re: The ultimate shaggy dog story...

Post by Art »

.

I'll Ditto justalabrat's comments ..


Also if I had come across Faraday's paradox before (which I didn't ) I would still be scratching my head if the answer hadn't been explained to me !

.
Have had the solution to Bessler's Wheel approximately monthly for over 30 years ! But next month is "The One" !
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Post by daxwc »

MrVibrating:
This is a perhaps surprising base level of simplicity underlying something so complex as a universe.. just two types of particle? Really? Yet this is the inescapable conclusion and consequence of something called the Pauli exclusion principle.
There are some similarities to the binary code of a computer program.
What goes around, comes around.
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re: The ultimate shaggy dog story...

Post by Trevor Lyn Whatford »

Hi,

I think the Universe is safe, most here are looking for Gravity driven devices, and they would not be over unity. The use of Gravity means you have a set force and the only way to use that force is by increasing the Device efficiency, thus no energy gain, it is the energy saving that is used as a output so energy is not created only converted. A bit like the planetary Orbits. Although the Earth and Universe is expanding and they cannot find the extra energy that is making this happen.

Edit It maybe possible increase the mass volume at the cost of its density.
I think I read somewhere that only a small percent of the Universe is made up of atoms. So space would be a shield, if this is correct. I am beginning to think most of Physics is a shaggy dog story, theory's counter theory's, counter, counter theory's.
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Post by eccentrically1 »

so the possibility we are part of a computer matrix is there.
in the rabbit hole, one theory is reality doesn't happen until it is observed. all possibilities are there, but they don't manifest in the universe unless a mind imagines them.
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re: The ultimate shaggy dog story...

Post by Bill_Mothershead »

Best post I have read on this forum in many long years. Thank you.


Please rest up for a while, then, when you are ready, open a new bottle
and share something about gravity and/or momentum.

Again, thank you.
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Post by Andyb »

Mr vibrating if the world needed a man to put the words in front of us to see the way ,your the man, love ya dude,Andy.
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re: The ultimate shaggy dog story...

Post by silverfox »

You can't destroy what isn't real to begin with. What appears to be real to us and for us is a direct product of physical senses that are no more real than anything they happen to percieve and interpret as being real in the limited and restricted way not only those senses but eveything they happen to percieve is continuously being genrerated by quantuum energies whose activites are all basically four dimensional with certain three dimensional before and after "effects" that are all either we or anything else we happen to percieve as being physical "is" in any true sense.

So the Universe and world that each of us independently percieves will cease to physically exist when each of us does. Mine will go with me and your's will go with you and whoever is left will still have all the ones in which we no longer appear as we did to them in it.

The idea that we all exist in a one and the same Universe is a convenient and unprovable generalization that allows us to directly share what are the entirely unique experiences that each of us as entirely unique physical constructs happen to be having within the context of their general similarities to those of other humans and in spite of the fact that all the niggling details of the Universe and world that each of us percieves ourselves as existing in the very centre of are all actually different from anyone else's when we get right down to them.

Now we not only exist in a perpetually moving but a perpetually changing physical Universe that owing to the space we each occupy and time during which we do guarantees that none of us ever actually senses the same aspects of anyrthing and the perspective from which we do that can only really be shared by describing and communicating it to others. That would still remain true even if it really was a one and the same Universe, but of course it isn't nor could it be.

This website can seve as a demonstration of what I'm attempting to point out. You can believe that this is a one and the same place in cyberspace that a click of your mouse will whisk you off to and where you can post messages back and forth in a manner that you might physically do with others on a bulletin board at the supermarket and the reality you experience doesn't conflict with that simplistic but completely erroneous interpretation of what is actually taking place.

What you are reading at the moment was completely created from scratch on your own monitor from the latest information when you accessed it and that version that you're looking at is one that no else has ever viewed on their monitor and never will and even if nothing appears to have changed when you next revisit it that too will be yet another entirely new version that only you have ever seen. It is only superficially identical in that regard and created by entirely different energies from what the previous one was and the information itself may well have come from another and completely different server as well.

What you are seeing on that monitor of your's right now is maintained by the continuous movement of energies you don't see entering or leaving or anything about how their passage creates these "illusionary" letters and words that apparently have a form of physical existence that is only that in the way it appears to you. It's not what it is, that accounts for that, but rather what you yourself are, that does by the way your senses happen to percieve and interpret the ongoing effects of those energies activites.

The reality that each of us experiences is created in a very similar way to that for each of us.

No point in having a shaggy dog story if it doesn't have some real hair on it, now is there?
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Re: The ultimate shaggy dog story...

Post by Grimer »

MrVibrating wrote:...
Charges like electrons don't interact directly with each other, instead they react with the vacuum, which reacts back at them. The vacuum is the intermediary interlocutor in everything! The vacuum's incessant hive of activity is the glue cementing every atom and molecule of our bodies together! This vacuum activity is a part of us, a part of everything, that everything depends upon.
...
http://www.zen111904.zen.co.uk/Speculat ... /SST05.jpg

Couldn't agree more. :-)
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re: The ultimate shaggy dog story...

Post by murilo »

SirVibrating,
I guess that all you want to do is smashing me under the massive erudition you show to have!
Pls... compassion... be kind to my ignorance...
Don't show me what I can't ignore, pls!
Best!
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re: The ultimate shaggy dog story...

Post by TGM »

Hmm...I sense there may be something amiss here similar to this:

(From the "Big Bang Theory")

...Professor Hawking tells Sheldon that the paper is very interesting, though that he made an arithmetic mistake. Once Sheldon finds it and realized what he did in front of his idol, he faints. Professor Hawking observes, "Great, another fainter."

So, maybe their math is messed up? ;->
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