I have lots of Bessler Wheel builds that have not worked out the way I wanted them to. I submit the following idea, as I am sure SOMEONE has already tried something similar and will be able to tell me where I have gone wrong.
Two weights connected to each other and at 90 degrees from each other, The green dot on the drawing indicates the pivot point. This would be a drum wheel with metal rods connecting the two pieces of the drum, and the weights would pivot on the metal rods, never coming into contact with other weights, because they are basically side by side. A second set of weights could be added that would make the drum twice as thick, but would allow it to turn in the opposite direction.
The smaller weight is on the longer rod, and is capable, because of leverage, of moving the larger weight. I hope the picture is better at explaining than my words. What I have seen from the experiments I have done is that when the weights fall, they exert a torque on the pivot point that yanks the wheel around its circular path. This action, plus overbalancing may give me what I am looking for.
Thoughts anyone?
Basic Model
Moderator: scott
re: Basic Model
For some reason I can't post a picture. Could it be a format issue? It is a bmp. 16 bit
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Furcurequs
- Devotee
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- Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:50 am
Hey 11Turion,
Yeah, bmp isn't listed as one of the allowable file extensions:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/attach_rules.php?f=1
Since it is a drawing, you might want to convert it to a gif or png.
There are online tools that will do it for you, I think, if you don't have a program handy.
Dwayne
Yeah, bmp isn't listed as one of the allowable file extensions:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/attach_rules.php?f=1
Since it is a drawing, you might want to convert it to a gif or png.
There are online tools that will do it for you, I think, if you don't have a program handy.
Dwayne
re: Basic Model
It will not work because all of the rods are tied to the same rotational element, just like 99.9999999999999% of the ideas you see posted here and on the Internet.
All of you are welcome!
All of you are welcome!
"Orffyreus commented that when the secret is revealed, he is afraid that people will complain that the idea is so simple it is not worth the asking price."
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rasselasss
- Aficionado
- Posts: 919
- Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:19 pm
- Location: northern ireland
re: Basic Model
..neither my arse nor my elbow...George Shaw.
re: Basic Model
I'm not thanking you TGM. That is not the reason it doesnt work.
re: Basic Model
No wheel will ever function if the "forcing" devices inside are tied together in any way.
Never, never, never.
If that were possible, there would be a plethora of working devices in the gravity well. I seem to recall there are ZERO that have publicly worked since JB's wheel.
Popular rumor indicates any who have worked were defeated by the big-bad oil companies with money or force.
Never, never, never.
If that were possible, there would be a plethora of working devices in the gravity well. I seem to recall there are ZERO that have publicly worked since JB's wheel.
Popular rumor indicates any who have worked were defeated by the big-bad oil companies with money or force.
"Orffyreus commented that when the secret is revealed, he is afraid that people will complain that the idea is so simple it is not worth the asking price."
re: Basic Model
TGM,
in this weird smart forum you should never say NEVER! B∫
in this weird smart forum you should never say NEVER! B∫
re: Basic Model
No no no,it can not work, like many approaches the weights are reaching points of rest, there for, the memory if you like is heavy, let alone the keel factor,the lesson i have learned lead me to find a way to tap a hanging weight for you have a far better chance of creating motion when your rotating force is as low as possible by hanging weights the wheel will spin for ages showing you cf swinging over the zenith all sorts of things ,the main lesson to learn as i see it is keep everything moving there is energy to be created in every part of the wheels rotation the trick is probably in where you chose to do it,but there is one thing that will always hold true in my mind every thing must retain the power of free motion, everything,i do not think that the principle is that difficult to understand but building the mechanical design to exploit that principle is where we get stuck keep building from what i have learned i have loads to learn so another proto can only be good for me ,so good luck anyway and merry xmas.
Only by making mistakes can you truly learn
re: Basic Model
The above 11Turion design is an ass backward drawing of James kelly's "framing square design which Turion had access to while auditing 'Gravity Solutions Group'
The design calls for the heavy weight to hang vertical while the right angle square and smaller weights all point left. James claimed by fixing a basting brush on a shelf level with the small weight at nine o'clock creating a light impetus it would sometimes set up a sort of resonance frequency, and turn when his washing machine entered its spin cycle.
It stands to reason that the heavier weight swinging on the accent is going to relieve back torque when it reaches its apogee. I never followed up on this, so I make no claims negative or positive, I am however inclined to see the possibility.
There is no doubt in my mind that the way it is drawn here will not work!
Ralph
The design calls for the heavy weight to hang vertical while the right angle square and smaller weights all point left. James claimed by fixing a basting brush on a shelf level with the small weight at nine o'clock creating a light impetus it would sometimes set up a sort of resonance frequency, and turn when his washing machine entered its spin cycle.
It stands to reason that the heavier weight swinging on the accent is going to relieve back torque when it reaches its apogee. I never followed up on this, so I make no claims negative or positive, I am however inclined to see the possibility.
There is no doubt in my mind that the way it is drawn here will not work!
Ralph
re: Basic Model
Ralph,
If I ever saw that design, I don't recall it. But perhaps something stuck in my head. I will never know. I tried something similar to this several years ago with hinged pieces and washers for weights that I posted on Youtube. This is a progression of that work. If I have infringed on the design of another, I sincerely apologize. It was not intended.
It isn't the balance of the hanging weights that caused me to mess with this design but the leverage that is created against a solid side of the barrel by some of the weights. When they hit against it, they yanked the thing around in its rotation. I only had a couple weights to play with, but I have gone to the expense of putting together 8 of them so I can see for myself.
If it does not work, and I don't expect it will, perhaps it will help me a little farther down the road. If you look at the two weights in the 9:00 position,, the larger weight exerts leverage on the smaller weight and tries to push it against the side of the drum and up, but cannot because the drum is solid. Does this actually add to the rotation of the drum? How far from the rim would you have to move the pivot point in , or how long would the long arm have to be before it does. I keep looking at that and thinking there is something there. Maybe not a solution, but at least a new bit of knowledge for me.
Dave
If I ever saw that design, I don't recall it. But perhaps something stuck in my head. I will never know. I tried something similar to this several years ago with hinged pieces and washers for weights that I posted on Youtube. This is a progression of that work. If I have infringed on the design of another, I sincerely apologize. It was not intended.
It isn't the balance of the hanging weights that caused me to mess with this design but the leverage that is created against a solid side of the barrel by some of the weights. When they hit against it, they yanked the thing around in its rotation. I only had a couple weights to play with, but I have gone to the expense of putting together 8 of them so I can see for myself.
If it does not work, and I don't expect it will, perhaps it will help me a little farther down the road. If you look at the two weights in the 9:00 position,, the larger weight exerts leverage on the smaller weight and tries to push it against the side of the drum and up, but cannot because the drum is solid. Does this actually add to the rotation of the drum? How far from the rim would you have to move the pivot point in , or how long would the long arm have to be before it does. I keep looking at that and thinking there is something there. Maybe not a solution, but at least a new bit of knowledge for me.
Dave
Dave
It is not like James Kelly's for yours is designed inside the wheel for flips, James's was not but your does look more like what I was doing. Here is one I posted for CLaNZeR to build over on OverUnity back in 2008.
http://www.overunity.com/5226/ab-hammer ... rmWkbRMrZc
I have probably about 20 to 40 versions you are more than welcome to, if you think they will help.
Alan
It is not like James Kelly's for yours is designed inside the wheel for flips, James's was not but your does look more like what I was doing. Here is one I posted for CLaNZeR to build over on OverUnity back in 2008.
http://www.overunity.com/5226/ab-hammer ... rmWkbRMrZc
I have probably about 20 to 40 versions you are more than welcome to, if you think they will help.
Alan
re: Basic Model
Alan,
LOL! That design incorporates what I went to sleep thinking about last night, which was having the long arm able to reach past center to put its weight on the other side of the wheel. You have obviously tried that, so I won't waste my time.
Dave
LOL! That design incorporates what I went to sleep thinking about last night, which was having the long arm able to reach past center to put its weight on the other side of the wheel. You have obviously tried that, so I won't waste my time.
Dave
Hi Dave
Here is the first wheel that I used a flipper pendulum but they where strait bars not 90 degree.
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/downl ... er=user_id
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/downl ... er=user_id
I am re-laying out the IMO the final versions of 2 of my near runners from the past. New twist on what I am doing to correct their short comings. This will give me builds while I keep working on the parts of my mane series of designs which consist of well over a dozen variations. When I get the rest of my back VA pay, I will be able to spend at least a couple of months full time on them.
Alan
Here is the first wheel that I used a flipper pendulum but they where strait bars not 90 degree.
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/downl ... er=user_id
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/downl ... er=user_id
I am re-laying out the IMO the final versions of 2 of my near runners from the past. New twist on what I am doing to correct their short comings. This will give me builds while I keep working on the parts of my mane series of designs which consist of well over a dozen variations. When I get the rest of my back VA pay, I will be able to spend at least a couple of months full time on them.
Alan