Witness accounts of falling objects inside Bessler's wheel?

[raj]

Hi Folks!


What are your views on the clue that SCRATCHING sound was heard?

What, when, how and why scratching could have been made inside Bessler's wheels?

Raj

[Oystein]

"...as if parts or poles moved over one another.."

This is also the sound of the central mechanical principle that my code research have revealed.

[jim_mich]

The when: Witnesses reported hearing the scratching sounds with the one-way wheels.

The what: Bessler said he tried to quiet the mechanisms by using felt. He admitted that this was not done with the two-way wheels. I think he used the term, "bald as billiard balls". I could search Bessler's words, but so can you, thanks to John Collins' publications.

The why: It seems that as Bessler progressed from his early unbalanced wheels to his two-way wheels, he may have found the banging of weights against the wheel to be helpful. Or maybe since it had become known that his wheel was rotated using weights, and because his wheels were bigger, he may have decided to skip the sound deadening felt.

[raj]

Does sound reflect the level of impact between two collided objects?

If yes, does muffling the sound with felt or other means lessens the impact?

If yes, would it be wise to try to muffle the sound of impact, as impacting is welcomed in search of a perpertual rotating wheel?

Raj

[rlortie]

IMO muffling is not the objective. It is to absorb the energy in the wheel movement augmenting it. Muffling the sound with felt or other means does not lesson the impact it makes it more efficient.

Simple test: with a hammer let it fall on a hardwood or tile floor and watch it bounce. The higher the bounce the less Pe you have utilized in transfer to wheel rotation.

Now let the hammer fall on padded carpet and again make note of the bounce. you will find very little as the energy is absorbed into the padding and passed on to the wheels motion.

Harpsichords and pianos use felt padded strikers, while a guitar is often played with a plastic pick or finger nail. Listen to each and you can see that the padded keys make for more lasting harmonics and mellow reverberating sound.

Ralph

[daanopperman]

I see ,

So that is why they use boxing gloves .

[DrWhat]

Boxing gloves spread the impact

[eccentrically1]

Muffling the sound with felt or other means does not lesson the impact it makes it more efficient.

why didn't he continue to use felt in the big wheels if it was helpful?

[AB Hammer]

They didn't last. So why keep doing something that tore up after awhile?

[wheelrite]

If you rotate the wheel slowly a free hanging pendulum with its pivot wont tend to swing, just adjust to the new position. If you then start it more rapidly it still doesn't impart hardly any swinging in the pendulum. so we have slow and fast, what mech would have a speed related critical 'start' point? How about a sprung weighted lever or scissor? this would develop deflection with speed, so say 1rpm gives 25mm deflection, not enough to cause the start of the 'knock on' effort, but 4 rpm initial gives say 50mm deflection and this is enough. I like the idea because Bessler stated springs were used and witnesses heard one 'twang' among other strong clues.

[eccentrically1]

the felt or its absence doesn't make it much more or less efficient, yes i agree. so the sound also didn't need to be muffled anymore either, if the noise had made any difference.

if fischer said 'the weights which fall gently on the side towards which the wheel turns', and, 'I commenced the movement very gently to see if it would of itself regain its former rapidity, which I doubted, believing as they said in London, that it only preserved for a long time the impetus of the impulse first communicated. But to my astonishment I observed that the rapidity of the wheel augmented little by little until it had made two turns, and then it regained its former speed, until I observed by my watch that it made the same twenty-six turns a minute as before, when acting freely; and twenty turns when it was attached to the screw to raise water.'

how could it accelerate that quickly, using gently falling weight only, from a gentle commencement? that seems odd for a wheel that heavy. what was the estimate, 375ish lbs? more for more weights? 0 rpm to 26 rpm in two turns? does that seem like an unlikely acceleration for gently falling weight?

bob barker spins on the price is right
one minute in, doesn't get it around.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGGokl1Rmgg

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi E1,

how could it accelerate that quickly, using gently falling weight only, from a gentle commencement? that seems odd for a wheel that heavy. what was the estimate, 375ish lbs? more for more weights? 0 rpm to 26 rpm in two turns? does that seem like an unlikely acceleration for gently falling weight?

If the wheel is only a small amount of out of balance then I would expect that sort of acceleration, this would match my experiments one of which was two x 8 x 2.2 kg weighted wheels bolted together, with eight on one wheel as a flywheel, and by removing just one weight on the other wheel to see if the fly wheel could carry the 7 weight past the reset. With the weight gap at 7 o'clock I let it go and the heavy side accelerated very quickly, so if a wheel could be made with just a 1/15th out of balance it would have very good wheel speed with a good torque.

A wheel of over 375 lbs would only need a 8 ounce constant imbalance to constantly turn a wheel, With only a very small imbalance the wheel would not accelerate very quickly but it would turn.

The weights could fall very gently as long as they fall to a out of balance position, at faster wheel speeds they could be landing at just a little more velocity than the wheel speed.

If we did not get so greedy we would have cracked the puzzle years ago!

Edit, once 22.29
Edit, change 4 to 8 ounces.

[eccentrically1]

hey tlw
do you know how to figure out what that acceleration is? 0 to 26 rpm?

[jim_mich]

Might want to look at the wheel acceleration thread, specially page 7... http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 1513#11513

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi E1,

I can give you the friction free maximum top speeds of a outer rim constant imbalance, and can tell you that in two turns for a 2m wheel could in a perfect world accelerate to the maximum speed.
A 1m wheel maximum top speed is about 187 rpm, a 2m wheel is 93 rpm, a 3m wheel is 62 rpm.

Not knowing the outer rim imbalance of Bessler's wheel internal mechanism we can only guess.

Edit, 9.8m/s x 60 seconds (1 minute), divided by outer rim circumference ( distance travelled ), Just a rough guide.

Edit, I am aware of all the forces that would be at play here, the above is only meant to show that gravity has the force input to achieve good rpm and good acceleration.