Another claim to a working device...

[rlortie]

I see something fishy in the above photos that I cannot make out.

First we see a gib or bar key slot and bar then another slot that appears to run full length of the shaft and then in the third photo it disappears. There is no key-way present in the last main shaft section.

Ralph

[Red_Sunset]

I've now tested this pretty much to death - i've wracked my brains for any additional options or possibilities but can't come up with any configuration of this apparatus that does what it says on the tin.

The central claim laid out in the patent application is patently false, unfortunately. Specifically, the claim that the blue or green locking points (to the diagonal or horizontal bars) doubles the effective force driving the crank, is without foundation - this DOES NOT occur.

After exhausting every measure i could think of, the final nail in the coffin is torque tests for all three conditions laid out in the patent application;

1) applying the arc-lock to the Green positive bar, or

2) the Yellow Neutral bar

3) the Blue positive bar

..............................and ..........................................................
My verdict: Scam/hoax/delusion... most likely fraud imho... Either way, his investors haven't done due diligence..

MrVibrating,
The simulation output shown in an earlier mail, measured the force at “circle 29�. I would assume this is the crankshaft ? Can you confirm this?.
Could you also clarify what does the x-scale shown refer to. You have squares that are numberd and a vernier scale below that. What does it mean exactly ?.
And how and at what measure point did the simulator calculate the counter force & energy seen by the crankshaft, this being the counter pressure force posed by the weight during the upgoing part of the cycle.
Did you input the gravity weight force as a regular force or as gravity force ?
With reference to your simulation, do you have the ability to set a measurement point wherever you want ? Like any joint?
I hope you can help
Red_Sunset

[Grimer]

Hey Grimer,

Thanks.

The RAR website has worked for me the few times I've checked it recently, and it seems to be okay for me at the moment, too.

Must be you. ;)

Take care.

Dwayne

Thanks, Dwayne.

Indeed it was me. I tried another browser and managed to get the site back.

[Grimer]

http://previdi.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/s ... -2012.html


Had a Skype discussion with Cbucket yesterday evening. He commented that the fat chap reminded him of Brunel in that classic photo in front of the Great Eastern. All Renato needs is a big cigar and stovepipe hat to complete the image.

You're not going to tell me the billionaire owner of a huge private company is going to expose himself to the ridicule of the world by having his photo taken in front of a machine that doesn't work.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Grimer,

You're not going to tell me the billionaire owner of a huge private company is going to expose himself to the ridicule of the world by having his photo taken in front of a machine that doesn't work.

I do not think he would care about ridicule, if you are a billionaire and you are like most of us here, then I think there is more than a good chance your builds would get bigger and you would get someone else to build them for you. Do you have his phone number so I can at last get my Geo Genny built lol.

Edit, Joking aside, it would be fantastic if someone like Ralph was a billionaire, and people could send them their designs for a assessment and maybe getting them built. the sad thing is that most of the people here have designs stacking up and no time and funds to build them. Not just builds, I know many people here would like to see experiments done as well. "Crack pots" what chance do you have with a label like that.

[rlortie]

Unfortunately Ralph is not a billionaire. I do receive a lot of designs from people who wish to see a build, most I disqualify as experience tells me their idea will not work.

Through attrition, loss of patience and disinterest 'Arrache' no longer has the man power nor finances to "think-tank" and collaborate every submitted design. I am pretty much on my own, and present medical costs have forced me to shut down my complex for the winter. A 30,000 BTU heater has been purchased and is on-sight, but I have neither the finances or time to plumb it in.

I have a design in progress competing with Jim_Mich's fluid drive which looks very promising. I have built a 48" diameter putting it through the paces and am now laying out and fabricating a 72" diameter model.

My parts list looks nothing like Jim's, where he is using 2" pipe, I am going with 4" and it contains only two 3/4" elbows and a swivel section.

I will speak more of this on the proper thread in due time. Trevor Lynn Whatford's original hydraulic multi-lever design comes closer to my concept than Jim_Mich's,

You're not going to tell me the billionaire owner of a huge private company is going to expose himself to the ridicule of the world by having his photo taken in front of a machine that doesn't work.

Howard Hughes did with his 'Spruce Goose" finishing it out of his own pocket and proving that it could fly. It is now located on display here in Oregon and every time I go aboard it my emotions run high! It is not the stature of the plane that chokes me up but the fact that he stuck with it until proving to congress and the military that the plane would perform as expected.

Ralph
.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Ralph,

I should stuck with that design and see it through to the end, although it would have used the same principle the reservoir would have had been greatly improved, with some special features, still if all else fails then I will return to build it properly.

If I was to build compressible Reservoirs again then in one of the designs they would be groups of 4 open and closed sets laid out in a square format linked to levers mounted close to the wheel centre. The fluid transfer is then at a more forgiving angle with dramatic less leverage required. as you say this is not the thread to go into detail and when and if I get time I will post it on its thread.

There is nothing wrong with the multi lever phenomenon, wherein there can be a greater torque force gained from the falling levers, than the torque force required to rotate the wheel even with a overall drop in weight as Kaine suggested. I must thank Kaine for his input here, because it made me go back into the garage and build another model and measure it with the levers in the fallen position. So when done right multi levers are still a good prime mover.

I wish you luck Ralph, and look forward to seeing your improvements and innovation.

I like to think that if you was a Billionaire the puzzle would have been solved long ago.

With much respect as always, TLW

Edit, + one of the designs.

[Grimer]

...

You're not going to tell me the billionaire owner of a huge private company is going to expose himself to the ridicule of the world by having his photo taken in front of a machine that doesn't work.

Howard Hughes did with his 'Spruce Goose" finishing it out of his own pocket and proving that it could fly. ...

Rather you should say that Howard Hughes would have exposed himself to ridicule if his plane hadn't flown but he proved that it could.

There was nothing wrong with the Spruce Goose, or the Brabazon for that matter. They were simply pre-empted by more advanced technology such as the jet engine.

The monster RAR device will no doubt also be rapidly overtaken by simple and more efficient gravity engines.

[Furcurequs]

@Furcurequs - Well done mate, i did the same thing with the first colour pics off PESwiki... these latest additions are just baffling though - Bessler's adage about adding ever more complexity comes to mind - "it'd run longer if it were empty!"...

It's clear to me now what he's trying to do, and unfortunately if he's genuine then he's suffering a pathological inability to understand why the damned thing won't work. More likely imo this increasingly Heath Robinson-esque monstrosity is meant to baffle and beguile...

Again though, these latest additions to the core mechanism follow the same hypothesis detailed in the patent app. - trying to add the downforce on the fulcrum as the weight arm lifts upwards to the gravity vector every half cycle.

IF he's genuine then the cure for his malaise is the realisation that any additional work done this way is exactly cancelled by the lift energy required to generate the downwards counterforce - his "force other than gravity" he claims to have proven the existence of (these are his own words from the patent app.)



For a final last, desperate chance at success, this evening i completed a sim of the 4-stroke cycle he details in the application - basically four mechanisms on the same axle, with 45° intervals spanning 180°.

Its behaviour is identical to that of a single mechanism - the crank never exceeds ~350°, then oscillates down losing energy all the time.

So in for a penny, in for a pound... i linked 8 x 45° increments, for a full 360°.

And you guessed it; it's static. The tolerances settle, but it just sits there... The patent app. claims these configs are PM and must be locked in place to hold them still...

Note that this isn't an interpretation of the claimant's intention - it's a step-by-step exact replication of the explicit instructions, examining the core mechanism of the central principle being claimed.



8-way model attached, trim any four mechanisms for the 4-way version...

Hey Mr. Vibrating,

Thanks. I was unaware of your previous efforts, of course, but mine were inspired by seeing your own Working Model depiction of a single mechanism. It's certainly nice to actually be able to see what's connected to what now. I thank you for that.

I had to look up "Heath Robinson," by the way. It seems that here in the states to convey a similar meaning to yours in describing the monstrosity, we would have probably said something like "jury-rigged, Rube Goldberg-esque" instead.

Anyway, in that I'm exploring some specific ideas of my own that I'm cautiously optimistic about, I'm now not too quick to just dismiss the designs of others - especially if they are not something I've seen before. So, without doing a full analysis myself (which I probably won't do due to other things) of the very latest RAR design, I won't pass judgment.

...but... (lol)

After only lightly skimming over the patent application and seeing the progression of this thing and what appear to me to be somewhat irrational decisions on their part, I can't say I have too much confidence that these folks know what they are doing. ...nor (for whatever it's worth) do I really see the principles I'm exploring hidden in their device, either, though they possibly could be to some degree and I just don't see it since my own experimental devices (that are still under construction) are more wheel-like.

Maybe they did measure an anomaly and so are just haphazardly throwing things together to try to exploit it? I don't know.

I do find the later designs more intriguing, however, if only because there are more pieces to have to analyze - including things that rotate and pivot and swing and slide and rise and descend and whatever. That at least gives a little room for energy storage elements and phase shifts and whatnot that might be part of what's needed for a working device.

...though, again, I obviously don't really know.

It also, of course, could make for many additional frictional losses.

Unfortunately, I don't have the Working Model program, so I can't take full advantage of your work, but I again thank you for your efforts.

...and sorry it took so long to respond. I have health issues and often have to force myself to post even when at my best.

Take care.

Dwayne

[Grimer]

...
Had a Skype discussion with Cbucket yesterday evening. He commented that the fat chap reminded him of Brunel in that classic photo in front of the Great Eastern. All Renato needs is a big cigar and stovepipe hat to complete the image.
...

I see that Art had already made that observation many posts back. Sorry chaps, I should have read the thread.

To make up for it here's something else Charlie Bucket gave me.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... -_USA.svgT



As you can see the rate of energy returned for energy invested is horrible for Bio-diesel - which probably explains the fat guy's interest in finding some cheap alternative energy source. Gravity will put him up there with hydro.

Charlie suggested that maybe he was having all the other bio-diesel producers in to make them an offer they couldn't refuse. Buy a machine or you'll soon be out of business and I'll buy you up.

[Grimer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incobrasa_Industries

Incobrasa Industries Limited a biodiesel manufacturing firm in Gilman, Illinois. The firm was founded by Brazilian Renato Ribeiro. Construction began in 1995 on a 2,000 ton-per-day soybean crushing facility, and the company started production in 1997. etc.

[TGM]

EROI: Ratio of Energy Returned on Energy Invested

Very interesting!

Here is the article to read on corn ethanol.

[cbucket]

Sorry to be a pedant but its ERoEI (Energy Returned on Energy Invested)

[Grimer]

That's ok Charlie. As you can see I copied it from those big capital letters above the graph.

Thanks for pointing out the error.

I'm sending this from my iPad cos Thomas and George are on my computer. Three young Crabs are here for a two night sleepover.

Happy New Year :-)

[Grimer]

The following is a repost from OverUnity.com

I think I can now see my way to understanding what's going on with the RAR gravity engine.

These various mechanisms which are being discussed, the simple balance, the Roberval Balance and the RAR are all energy transduscers which convert the gravitational acceleration into different orders of energy and route that energy to different destinations.

The three lowest orders of energy we are concerned with are

1st order ..... velocity
2nd order ..... acceleration
3rd order ..... jerk

Fortunately for us we can forget about the next three higher orders,
snap(4th), crackle(5th) and pop(6th),

Starting first with a simple lever balance pivoted at its centre we can see that the equal 2nd order energy of two unit masses in free fall is transduced into equal 3rd order energy for the mass nearest (inboard) and the mass furthest (outboard) from the pivot.

Both masses have the same angular momentum in other words.

In contrast the 2nd order energy of the two masses is no longer equal.
The 2nd order energy (acceleration) is partitioned into a greater and a lesser.

The outboard mass has the greater 2nd order energy.
The inboard mass has the lesser 2nd order energy.

So we can see that the simple balance is a step up transducer.
The energy equality is stepped up from the 2nd to the third order.

In contrast the boundary case of a Roberval Balance leaves the energy order of two free falling masses unchanged.

In this boundary case the component masses of the balance tend to zero
and the vertical movement of the balance pan also tends to zero.

Now even without having a full analysis of the RAR certain things seem clear enough.

The 3rd order energy is being partitioned between the mass of the earth (as in the case of gravity assist) and the crankshaft.


The transfer of the partitioned jerk is takes place as the outboard RAR mass is grounded.

It's certainly a damned more complicated away of harnessing gravity than the Bessler or the Keenie.

I suppose one can view it as the gravitational equivalent of a Newcomen Atmospheric Engine.