Bessler Wheel question

[veproject1]

Hi,

Could anybody explain me the function of 4 details marked "6." on the left side of the picture
http://www.orffyre.com/Merseburg1.jpg

Thank you

[jim_mich]

Those are the 'hammers' of a hammer mill. They are lifted by pegs protruding form the axle of the wheel. Then the hammers fall off the peg and drop. The hammers were commonly used to crush stone so as to set free the minerals contained in the stone. The minerals might be gold, silver, lead ore, of any other mineral locked in the stone. A hammer mill might be used to pulverize any substance as a manufacturing method. For instance the making of paper.

[veproject1]

thanks Jim

[ruggerodk]

Notice...the same axle lift the box of bricks and - at the same time - lowering the hammers: They are shown in reverse action.
Coincident or on purpose..?

[veproject1]

I'm going to make a model. If you browse my posts I make working models of unworkable devices, as most people think.
Could you, please, exactly describe a mechanism that lifts hammers and a box. What is behind of this picture?

Thanks

[jim_mich]

Notice...the same axle lift the box of bricks and - at the same time - lowering the hammers: They are shown in reverse action.
Coincident or on purpose..?

That is because this image is that of the Merseburg (Bessler's 3rd) Wheel which operated in either direction, depending upon which direction it was push started.

Bessler's last two wheels were balanced when stationary. They were balanced when rotated slowly. Only when rotated a little faster did they begin to self rotate. and at the same time weights were heard to start lightly banging inside the wheel. The wheel then accelerated up to full operating speed.

The many who think the wheel was rotated by gravity think it became gravitationally unbalanced when rotated.

The few who think it was rotated by motion think it became inertially unbalanced when rotated.

Then there are the skeptics who claim it could not possibly be perpetual motion, so they think it was either some sort of hoax or maybe some sort of environmental engine.

This is what makes the Bessler story so interesting.

[jim_mich]

veproject1,

Bessler spent ten years investigating and searching for any way of causing perpetual motion. His MT sketches (more than 140) show ideas that do not work. He eventually found (so the story goes) some sort of mechanical arrangement involving inter-linked weights moving inward and outward, which mechanism he kept hidden within his wheel, which caused the wheel to self-rotate and caused it to produce perpetual torque. The wheel was tested on numerous occasions and no fraud was ever found. It rotated for weeks at a time. Bessler was still seeking a buyer of his wheel when he was killed by gravity by falling from a windmill that he was hired to build.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Veproject 1,

The fact that Besslers Wheels would have good torque when in motion suggest to me that there was weights inside, and given that even with a good push or pull there would be not enough wheel speed before Centrifugal force would be strong enough to over power the force of gravity suggest to me that the wheels was gravity driven, this and the wheels quick acceleration.

Some people here think MT 55 is the stomper mechanism.

[veproject1]

What I clearly understand, that there is a secret inside of the wheel and every try to replicate the wheel
will fail without knowing this secret. It seemed to me that pendulums are the source of energy for the wheel, but it's not so simple.

Thanks

[Fletcher]

Yes - the laws of physics & mechanics [Archimedes Law of Levers; Conservation of Energy; Conservation of Momentum] do not allow for a mechanical contrivance in the form of a self-sustaining wheel to accelerate, or put another way, accumulate Momentum & Rotational Kinetic Energy, whilst doing work, without additional energy entering the system.

Since gravity force [mass x gravity acceleration] is not considered energy but a field or differential, & is considered a conservative force, then another force must supplement gravity to cause the above.

Some here think that since Bessler's latter wheels were bi-directional & from a small push in either direction would quickly accelerate to operating rpm, that the additional force must be manifest from actual movement of components within the wheel - some interpret that as signaling inertia as the culprit in the form of centrifugal force whilst others look for other potential sources of force including leveraged environmental effects & a large percentage of seekers gravity force itself with no additional assist.

Some think an internally stored fuel supply was used to provide the additional rotational energy & some think it was all a fraud.

Since gravity acceleration acts on all components with the same magnitude, regardless of which side of a fulcrum it sits in a wheel, then should someone find a bona fide PM solution from either gravity force alone, or supplemented by say Cf, then explaining to physicists & mathematicians a gain in momentum & rotational Ke of an accelerating wheel could become problematic for that individual i.e. explaining a coherent system to mitigate or replace current physics understanding.

[TGM]

Yes - the laws of physics & mechanics [Archimedes Law of Levers; Conservation of Energy; Conservation of Momentum] do not allow for a mechanical contrivance in the form of a self-sustaining wheel to accelerate, or put another way, accumulate Momentum & Rotational Kinetic Energy, whilst doing work, without additional energy entering the system.
- Indeed, for a closed total system.

Since gravity force [mass x gravity acceleration] is not considered energy but a field or differential, & is considered a conservative force, then another force must supplement gravity to cause the above.
- Yes, the rotating inertial mass of the wheel itself.

Some here think that since Bessler's latter wheels were bi-directional & from a small push in either direction would quickly accelerate to operating rpm, that the additional force must be manifest from actual movement of components within the wheel - some interpret that as signaling inertia as the culprit in the form of centrifugal force whilst others look for other potential sources of force including leveraged environmental effects & a large percentage of seekers gravity force itself with no additional assist.
- I believe this "small push" released the internal weights via a pendulum latch.

Some think an internally stored fuel supply was used to provide the additional rotational energy & some think it was all a fraud.
- Always at least two choices to everything as t>0 in a three-dimensional universe.

Since gravity acceleration acts on all components with the same magnitude, regardless of which side of a fulcrum it sits in a wheel, then should someone find a bona fide PM solution from either gravity force alone, or supplemented by say Cf, then explaining to physicists & mathematicians a gain in momentum & rotational Ke of an accelerating wheel could become problematic for that individual i.e. explaining a coherent system to mitigate or replace current physics understanding.
- Perhaps not...it really depends on the system assembled to take advantage of the momentum of the rotating wheel.

[veproject1]

Also, I'm interesting in details: 23. 24. (door lock?) and j4 Thanks

Hi,

Could anybody explain me the function of 4 details marked "6." on the left side of the picture
http://www.orffyre.com/Merseburg1.jpg

Thank you

[jim_mich]

Bessler's legend, as published in John Collins book "Das Triumphans", commonly called DT here on the forum...

(page 137)
There Now Follows A Description Of The External
Appearance Of The Orffyrean Perpetual Motion,
Constructed At Merseburg.
1. Diameter of main wheel.
2. Width of main wheel.
3. Main axis of machine.
4. Framework of boards which support the wheel, and within
which it rotates.
5. Framework for stamping-mill.

(page 138)
6. Four stampers which are raised alternately.
7. 8 arms from the main axis to raise the stampers.
8. Pendulums on each side to keep machine running true.
9. Levers for moving the pendulums.
10. Cranks and pivots which are part of the pendulums.
11. Weights at ends of pendulums.

(page 139)
12. From which the pendulums hang vertically.
13. Horizontal hanging for pendulum.
14. Iron screw on axle for fixing rope to.
15. Place at which rope winds on to axle.
16. Indicates total length of line or rope.
17. Pulley attached to floor, round which the rope passes.
18. Hole in board through which rope passes.

(page 140)
19. The rope passes through the window.
20. Pulley outside window, round which the rope passes.
21. Small wooden beam on which the pulley turns.
22. The chest, full of stones, which the wheel raises.
23. Wooden lever to bring machine to rest.
24. Padlock and chain for securing the machine.

[daanopperman]

Hi jim_mich ,

You have to add that the earlier wheels needed to be locked down for the wheel not to run continuous even after it was stopped , it was a self starting wheel and could only be in the stationary mode when locked , thus the padlock .

[veproject1]

Thank you, it is very helpful

Bessler's legend, as published in John Collins book "Das Triumphans", commonly called DT here on the forum...

(page 137)
There Now Follows A Description Of The External
Appearance Of The Orffyrean Perpetual Motion,
Constructed At Merseburg.
1. Diameter of main wheel.
2. Width of main wheel.
3. Main axis of machine.
4. Framework of boards which support the wheel, and within
which it rotates.
5. Framework for stamping-mill.

(page 138)
6. Four stampers which are raised alternately.
7. 8 arms from the main axis to raise the stampers.
8. Pendulums on each side to keep machine running true.
9. Levers for moving the pendulums.
10. Cranks and pivots which are part of the pendulums.
11. Weights at ends of pendulums.

(page 139)
12. From which the pendulums hang vertically.
13. Horizontal hanging for pendulum.
14. Iron screw on axle for fixing rope to.
15. Place at which rope winds on to axle.
16. Indicates total length of line or rope.
17. Pulley attached to floor, round which the rope passes.
18. Hole in board through which rope passes.

(page 140)
19. The rope passes through the window.
20. Pulley outside window, round which the rope passes.
21. Small wooden beam on which the pulley turns.
22. The chest, full of stones, which the wheel raises.
23. Wooden lever to bring machine to rest.
24. Padlock and chain for securing the machine.