Another claim to a working device...

[Grimer]

Thanks - I've got them now.

I notice the fat chap seems to have his wife with him.

The dates of the duplicate photos don't agree. This suggests they might have taken them earlier but only released them now.

[Grimer]

To add to my last post the reason I came onto this thread at 1.30 am London time is that I believe I understand what RAR are up to.

Its the Chimney wot done it - and those enigmatic hammer people on the toy page.

More later.

If you think about it you will realised that the two halves of the falling chimney are subject to accelerations which differ from gravitational free fall acceleration. The half furthest away from the base is accelerated up; the half nearest the base is accelerated down.

If one switches the pivot point to the other side then the situation is reversed.

The hammer toy illustrates just such a switching. The falling hammers impart angular momentum one way and then the other. Now if the hammers were equal then the two angular momentums would cancel each other out - but they are not equal, are they! Therefore there is a net gain in angular momentum.

Also, consider this, in falling the chimney imparts a large horizontal force to the base. This can be seen most clearly when chopping down a large tree. The base of the tree will jump backwards from the direction of fall and crush anyone unwise enough to stand in the wrong place.

If this horizontal force is applied to a crank arm then it will impart some angular momentum (jerk) to that arm, some fraction of the total angular momentum needed to drive the crankshaft one complete revolution.

Now we know that there are two pivot points on the RAR. One is the crankshaft and the other is the outboard weight when it is sitting on the ground. I think there is a photo of this somewhere on the OU forum. I'll have to see if I can find it.

You will also note that in the diagrams RAR fail to show this grounding. Maybe that's something they want to keep secret for a time.

[Grimer]

Here is a quote and photo from Red to show that allowing one of the weights to "earth" itself is an integral part of the cycle.

Hi Grimer,
There is no good picture to give you a view, where these counter weights are parked on the ground.
... I do think there is a high probability that they reach the ground at some point in the cycle for the following reason,
1.. The weights have feet to to account for a gap existing with the floor
2.. The weights are mounted on a shaft allowing for positional rotation.
3.. The weights are mounted on a 180dgr hinge (this allows the inboard weight to increase height without impediment)
3.. The advantage to disengage the counter weight when the inboard weight is at its highest to achieve highest gravity force
...

[Unbalanced]

Yet another four photos posted to http://www.rarenergia.com.br/ showing that work is progressing in Gillman IL.

This iteration of their Gravity Engine appears to be moving ahead, incorporating the refinements of their Brazilian model.

[Unbalanced]

@ Grimer

It is not conclusive from these photos, but I suspect that your idea that the outboard weights at some point of travel, come into contact with the floor, is not in reality the case with this iteration of the Gravity Engine. The CAD drawings of this devise also dispel your assumption.

[Grimer]

Thanks for the update, Unbalanced. I'm looking forward to seeing it in action. 8-)

[Grimer]

@ Grimer

It is not conclusive from these photos, but I suspect that your idea that the outboard weights at some point of travel, come into contact with the floor, is not in reality the case with this iteration of the Gravity Engine. The CAD drawings of this devise also dispel your assumption.

They don't have to come in contact with the floor to be supported by the floor.
In the first iteration the contact with the floor was obvious. In the next it may make contact via a supporting column, say.

In the Keenie, for example, the fact that the #9 weight is prevented from falling by a one way clutch means in effect it is making contact with the "floor" via the axle support.

I'll be very surprised if the outboard weight is not "earthed" in some equivalent manner.

[Unbalanced]

@Grimer

With all due respect accorded another long term enthusiast:

I haven't seen any photo that looks as though the outboard weights actually contact the floor. The inventor has stated that the "machine runs nearly silently."

It is my opinion that you are mistaken in this assumption.

As to the Keeny wheel, though I have spent countless hours on researching this devise, I can't fathom where your assumptions regarding weight numbers, (9 or otherwise) or oneway clutches or grounding of weights comes from. In my opinion the Keeny Wheel may just as likely be some manner of PTO clutch or some other devise other than a PM machine.

Until Jutsomeone or other person gets that collection of metal to run, I will reserve judgement.

[Grimer]

Since RAR have put feet on the weights, presumably they touch the floor. What other point could the feet have?

However. I wouldn't want to make a federal case out of it. We will know soon enough.

As to my explanation of the Keenie workings I am happy to go through the argument point by point by PM until we come to an irreconcilable disagreement. Clearly, one of us must be wrong and if it's me I'm sure you'll be willing to put me on the right path and show me the error of my ways. :-)

[AB Hammer]

If the weights hit the floor? The concrete will not last. We still have not seen the one that is suppose to be complete run. This tells me that it doesn't do what was expected. Now we have several forums talking about it and people suggesting ways they think it works gives the inventor possible changes to the newer build. Fishing for any correction to apply to the new build in hopes to make it work. Otherwise, it is a tax write off.

Alan

[daanopperman]

Grimer ,

Without the feet , the machine cannot RUN .

[rlortie]

grimmer wrote:

As to my explanation of the Keenie workings I am happy to go through the argument point by point by PM until we come to an irreconcilable disagreement. Clearly, one of us must be wrong and if it's me I'm sure you'll be willing to put me on the right path and show me the error of my ways. :-)

We are already at a point of irreconcilable disagreement, why bother taking it private?

Do you know something tangible that you are keeping to yourself? And if so how can you prove it without a build?

Ralph

[rlortie]

grimmer,

After giving it second thoughts, in respect of my elders. and knowing that you do not have the resources, physical ability or empirical skills, I offer the following.

Mail me any and all information you have compiled that convinces you that the "Heathen" (keenie) machine will operate as a self-sustain runner.

Then and only then, will I be willing to colaborate with you regarding any farther R&D on my part.

Ralph

[Grimer]

If the weights hit the floor? The concrete will not last. We still have not seen the one that is suppose to be complete run. This tells me that it doesn't do what was expected. Now we have several forums talking about it and people suggesting ways they think it works gives the inventor possible changes to the newer build. Fishing for any correction to apply to the new build in hopes to make it work. Otherwise, it is a tax write off.

Alan

Suppose the weights settle gently on the floor. Then the floor will last.

Let's hope that the changes to the newer build are the kind of improvements one gets when developing a new device.

If I were Renato I wouldn't have myself photographed in front of a machine looking like a modern day Brunel until I knew it worked. Would you?

[AB Hammer]

Grimmer

That is more a political argument for a (Scam Artist) tends to stand out in front more than anybody else. Yet we have not seen it in action either. So I have to take a wait and see approach with doubt due to the first one is built and still no evidence, but only speculation and assumptions. When I show my or my teams wheels, I want the wheels to be seen in action. No doubt and open to proper examination. It would seem to me that he needs more information to solve his problem with the design, or I would think we would have seen it run by now.

Alan