Another claim to a working device...

[Oystein]

"If I were Renato I wouldn't have myself photographed in front of a machine looking like a modern day Brunel until I knew it worked. Would you?"

Would you patent mechanisms making false claims of over-unity?

Roberto would.

Fact:

His simpler version, "the work amplifier" is obviously false patent claims. As it is a force-amplifier or force-adapter (f1*d1 = f2*d2). This made me believe that Robertos other patent, "the self-moving gravitation-machine" was based on the same faulty principle/miss-understanding of simple physics.

IMO:

1.
I believe they/he came up with the misunderstood "work amplifier" principle after studying Besslers MT, and especially "the toypage".

2.
I believe that they finally have to make a public video of their gravity driven machine "running" (moving around). But I believe you will never be able to tell if it runs the alternator or the machine is run by the "alternator". Then they will silently disappear as they basically have nothing.

3.
I also believe they made false claims when they stated that they already had a smaller model up and running.

I would like to be proven wrong.

[Grimer]

Grimer

That is more a political argument for a (Scam Artist) tends to stand out in front more than anybody else. ...

The man's a billionaire for heavens sake. He has no need to be a scam artist.

[daxwc]

No billionaire ever produced a scam before?
I would put some thought into that Grimmer.

[AB Hammer]

Grimer

That is more a political argument for a (Scam Artist) tends to stand out in front more than anybody else. ...

The man's a billionaire for heavens sake. He has no need to be a scam artist.

Grimmer

You missed my point. My statement was a general statement of truth. Snake oil scam artist, run their scam with grandeur. How rich someone is, doesn't make them tell the truth. He is showing how big he can have built, but has never shown a running device.

[honza]

His simpler version, "the work amplifier" is obviously false patent claims.

I suspect that his word "work" is in this instance meant as "useful work" (as oppose to "absolute work").
I can see this invention not as a claim for OU, merely as a optimizing arrangement for single cylinder air-compressors, which are known to be very inefficient.
In this arrangement the maximum force x lowest speed is produced at the peak of the piston stroke, and the highest speed x minimal force is produced at the beginning of the piston stroke (compared to conventional single cylinder air-compressor which delivers greatest force x minimal speed at the beginning as well as the end of the stroke, and maximum speed x lowest force in the middle of stroke).
This would in my opinion facilitate the use of a lower torque motor - thus resulting in some energy saving.

[Grimer]

Grimer

That is more a political argument for a (Scam Artist) tends to stand out in front more than anybody else. ...

The man's a billionaire for heavens sake. He has no need to be a scam artist.

Grimer

You missed my point. My statement was a general statement of truth. Snake oil scam artist, run their scam with grandeur. How rich someone is, doesn't make them tell the truth. He is showing how big he can have built, but has never shown a running device.

Well, I must admit, when I think of the Match King I can see you might have a point. :-)

However, I am confident that harnessing gravity is possible and believe the fat guy is telling the truth when he says he's done so.

[rlortie]

Apparently few if any involved in this thread are familiar with the name:
P. T. Barnum;

A man who became a millionaire with his frauds and alleged belief that "There is a sucker born every moment"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P._T._Barnum

Multitudes of people would flock to see his exhibits, in order to move the people through the ticket booth faster he came up with an idea! Once you had passed the exhibits you came to a door with a big sign reading "This way to the EGRESS" Few knew what "Egress" meant and would pass through the door, only to find themselves outside of the exhibit hall. They would have to buy another ticket to get back in.

[Grimer]

Am I the only person who believes that the RAR works as claimed?

[AB Hammer]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

1. it is an extraordinary claim.

2. There is no evidence either of it doing what is claimed.

As a builder, we all have to prove what we claim. If not it can be off to the fraud pages.

Alan

[Unbalanced]

Grimer Writes:

Am I the only person who believes that the RAR works as claimed?

Can't answer that.

My thoughts,

1) The inventor is an usually intelligent and resourceful person.

2) That he has found a chink in the armor of the Laws of Thermodynamics is exceedingly improbable at best.

3) About as improbable as a prudent person building two "Gravity Engines"of unusual size, on two continents.

4) I am firmly on the fence.

[Tarsier79]

I think the fence is a logical and suitable place to be. I am only resting my hand on the fence, with my feet planted firmly in the skeptics camp.

[Grimer]

...

Also, i don't like the stator part... Bessler's had no stator - everything went around together, and nothing about it could be stationary upon the axle. In this respect, Bessler's motive force was akin to the wheelworks of nature in that all other means of applying torque to a wheel must necessarilly push against the Earth - whether electromagnets or springs or whatever actuators are used. Bessler's design, at least outwardly, with its integrated axle on open bearings, appeared to turn without pushing against anything else external to the system.

...

It could have pushed against an internal pendulum. In short, the pendulum which we see on the outside in some images could have been internalised.

I think a pendulum is also shown in one of the MT drawings as well.

[murilo]

My feeling is that Senhor Renato, more than all, has absolute and frank moral support of his Family!

[Grimer]

He would have everyone's support if he'e only post a video of it working, something his family will have seen, obviously.

When I say everyone I exclude people who believe in the dogma that such a thing is impossible.

[Grimer]

...

Also, i don't like the stator part... Bessler's had no stator - everything went around together, and nothing about it could be stationary upon the axle. In this respect, Bessler's motive force was akin to the wheelworks of nature in that all other means of applying torque to a wheel must necessarilly push against the Earth - whether electromagnets or springs or whatever actuators are used. Bessler's design, at least outwardly, with its integrated axle on open bearings, appeared to turn without pushing against anything else external to the system.
[/b]
...

It could have pushed against an internal pendulum. In short, the pendulum which we see on the outside in some images could have been internalised.

I think a pendulum is also shown in one of the MT drawings as well.

I'm afraid I've been seduced by MrVibrating's "appeared to turn without pushing against anything external to the system". In fact a pendulum is not necessary. Open bearings can have a horizontal component of force which pushes against the earth.

A good example of this is the the offset gyroscope toy where the axle of the gyro rests on an open bearing at the top of a miniature Eiffel tower.

If the tower sits on a frictionless surface such as ice it will be driven around in a circular path by the rotating gyro. The end of the axle rides up the bearing until the normal force to the bearing slope is equal to the combination of the gravitational and horizontal force.

Likewise for the Bessler wheel.

Where the wheel was used outdoors it was presumably supported on a couple of tripods. Where it was used indoors it is significant the the pillars supporting the wheel were attached to the ceiling so that the horizontal force can be sustained without the wheel pushing the support over.

It is interesting to think that if Bessler had used a very shallow bearing having a radius of curvature much greater than that of the axle then this horizontal force would have been manifest and the true principle governing the harnessing of gravity, viz. the conservation of angular momentum (jerk) might have been deduced.

When one looks at things in terms of the Law of Requisite Variety, what
could be more reasonable that the third derivative of motion can corral the second derivative of motion.

It really is as simple as that - and when all the shouting is over people will be astonished that it has taken science so long to discover something so simple.