Half empty, half full - MT 137 thru MT 138

[Blitzbrain]

Hi murilo,
Why not staying low profile?
I always find it diffcult, especially in discussion boards like this, to "claim" something... especially when it comes to having a working mechanism.
Unless you patented it and by this are capable of showing a working device (which actually is the only way to apply a ptent for a PM... really true!) I'd keep my mouth shut. All the emotions, insults, better-knowings, scientifically sobers, etc... are just hot air... until the first one can prove all that wrong by a working machine.

So... let us all be sober and humble enough to only "claim" that we all haven't IT yet.

We may have good ideas... and we may find other guys ideas stupid... but let us keep that to ourselves.... and concentrate on what is the real importance... the bessler wheel.

Freundliche Gruesse from Germany.

[Ed]

Bessler discovered something, that was somehow stationary inside of the wheel.
And with the Gera wheel it was only on one side.

my personal opinion.

Obviously you are free to think and have any opinion. But Bessler stated that everything within his wheel went around with the wheel, and that nothing hung stationary as was suggested by Wagner's turn-spit concept.

Bessler was being sarcastic. He was telling Wagner "what goes around, comes around".

(With fingers in ears and yelling no, no, no... I managed to harness the horse-faced boy in front)

[jim_mich]

It's amazing what some people can swallow, and the rubbish that people can put into print, causing blatant untruths to get spread widely around.

Bessler was being sarcastic. He was telling Wagner "what goes around, comes around".

Thinking, you say! You're still comparing my wheel with yours? In a true Perpetuum Mobile everything must, necessarily, go round together.

Bessler's claim was that his mobile was the only true perpetual one. Bessler's claim was that Wagner's mobile was only a wind-up motion machine requiring non-rotating weights to hang down. Bessler claimed that within a true perpetual mobile everything inside rotates with the wheel.

Ed and his close friend Stewart are the ones who stick their fingers in their ears yelling no, no, on! Then they run and hide when asked to discuss their reasons behind their points of view.

[Ed]

says Jim_Mitch

Shaka, when the walls fell.

[Mark]

Hey! Hi, Ed. This place just ain't been the same the last few months. Great to see you pop back in.

Re: harnessed horses; I'd still like to read your treatise on the subject, be it here or elsewhere.

[Ed]

Hi Mark,

If it makes its way onto the web you'll be the first to know.

[murilo]

Hi murilo,
Why not staying low profile?
I always find it diffcult, especially in discussion boards like this, to "claim" something... especially when it comes to having a working mechanism.
Unless you patented it and by this are capable of showing a working device (which actually is the only way to apply a ptent for a PM... really true!) I'd keep my mouth shut. All the emotions, insults, better-knowings, scientifically sobers, etc... are just hot air... until the first one can prove all that wrong by a working machine.

So... let us all be sober and humble enough to only "claim" that we all haven't IT yet.

We may have good ideas... and we may find other guys ideas stupid... but let us keep that to ourselves.... and concentrate on what is the real importance... the bessler wheel.

Freundliche Gruesse from Germany.

Yes, blitz, I know we all are plenty of hot air... you know how a forum is...

I was just curious about what you think upon my design, not exactly a wheel... nothing else... just testing your understanding...

Anyhow, silence is also a response!
Vorsicht!

[Andyb]

Nothing remains stationary,if you lift a weight upwards and cause it to stop for a short cycle say 90 degrees and the remainder of the weights movement is in free motion and resetting,from what i have come to understand bessler has been saying all along keep it all moving any thing that stops measures out as negative torque weight, good for drive ,but you do not want it any where else in the wheel.

I think the answer lies in finding the solution by mistake so far i have made a lot of mistakes hopefully i will really screw up soon.Really rolling weights is the only way for me to go forward and so i will .

[Mark]

Okay, Ed. - Thanks !

:D

[Blitzbrain]

Hi Jim and all other "go arounders",

Sometimes it pays to read closely. I did not mean, that the thing, that was effective was stationary. I meant the "dog", that was able to drive the machine... like bessler said... he only comes as far as the chain goes... which means he is stationary at a certain position.

But I agree with you, that the effective part of the wheel at least had to spin half of the revolution of the whee with contact to the rim.

Or what do you think, the "on the belly crawling dog" was?

[jim_mich]

But when Bessler wrote about the dog and chain, he was writing in a derogatory manner about his enemies, calling them chained dogs, that could no longer harm Bessler, since Bessler had now moved into Karl's castle.

See my post #112331 where I commented about these writings.

[justsomeone]

And that folks is Jim's OPINION although he states it as fact!

[jim_mich]

And that folks is Jim's OPINION although he states it as fact!

Ah, yes. Everyone expresses their opinions without stating it's their opinion. For instance, one of our newer members just wrote...

I meant the "dog", that was able to drive the machine... like bessler said... he only comes as far as the chain goes... which means he is stationary at a certain position.

Everyone expresses their opinions as if they are fact. Except I'm not allowed to do the same?

Note that I have no beef with Blitzbrain. I welcome his comments. But Blitzbrain and many other members keep assuming (wrongly in my opinion) that much of Bessler's poetic writings are some sort of clues about Bessler's wheels.

It is my opinion that most of Bessler's writings that are assumed to be clues are very much not clues. If you go back and read the whole context of Bessler's poem, and keep in mind the events just previous to these writings, then the words of Bessler's poem take on a rather clear and different meaning (in my opinion).

Yes, this is my opinion (why must I need to repeat this perpetually?). I see Bessler's poem as being directed towards his enemies, Wagner, Gartner, and Borlach. When read from that perspective, the words take on a different meaning than as clues, at least in my mind. I once quoted Bessler's words which were written a few lines before his comments about the dog and chain, and daxwc complained saying the words were in different paragraphs and hardly an open and shut case. But I was wrongly accused, because the original words of Bessler run together. It was John Collins that decided to make a paragraph break at that location in Bessler's words. When looking at the original text, it is rather clear (in my opinion) that Bessler was addressing his three enemies, comparing them to dogs.

Thus (in my opinion) using Bessler's dog and chain statement as some sort of clue to Bessler's secret is just not true to what Bessler actually wrote. That is my opinion and my belief, and I'm sticking to it. Everyone is free to disagree. You are free to believe otherwise. You are free to think the dog and chain is some sort of clue. But to me, it is as plain as day that the dog and chain part of Bessler' poem concerned Bessler's move to Kassel, and thus Wagner was like a chained dog that could no longer reach Bessler.

[LustInBlack]

I am of the opinion that highly regarded members have nothing to gain by sharing and that new members have the new blood and adds new perspective; highly regarded dinosaurs feed on that creativity, because they have none.

Not surprisingly, groups like arrache feed on this creativity, as well.

[Blitzbrain]

Hi Jim,
Luckily we have no beef together :-D

Let me explain, why my opinion is, that the "dog" is a part of the wheel:

Ther German original text says: " Die schönen Schätze und Maschinen weiß er sehr freundlich zu bedienen. "

Which means translated, that him, the dog has the ability to work treasures and machines in a very friendly way.

For me, this is like he cannot refer to his enemies but directly refers to his machine... the bessler wheel...

just my opinion ;-)