Bellows

[preoccupied]

I was writing to a friend and I was thinking that the piston in automobiles might be less efficient than a bellows because I would not push on a cylinder to blow air onto a fire because that would be more difficult. I would like to know, what is the math for a bellows? Is there discussion on the forum about bellows? I think automobiles can get better torque and or better gas millage by using bellows instead of pistons. I still am working on my math education but I feel good about this idea even though I can't calculate it myself.

Here is a painting I made of a water bellows that I think would be able to rise water above gravity. The bellows refills because the water in the pipe is higher up and pushes back down into the bellows. The bellows falls because of the long lever. Simple concept. My gift to the world potentially.

[Tarsier79]

There is a lot that doesn't sit right with your diagram. I do vaugely recall seeing some maths for bellows, but I think they will conform to normal physics laws. If you think there might be something in bellows, the best thing to do is to do physical tests to confirm or contradict the maths and your theory of operation. I don't think it is the piston itself that makes I.C.engines inefficient, but a combination of gas manipulation and friction. However, who knows, you might be onto something?

[preoccupied]

The physical test I would start with is the weight of the water that would fall on the lever. Then that has to lift the water in the pipe.

So like if the lever held one pound of water then the bellow would have to spit at least 2 pounds of water into the pipe. The pipe would be one pound of water short of its opening and need to release one pound to refill the lever.

The distance of the lever and the amount of water that has to be lifted depends on the angle of the bellows. If the bellows were at an 11.25 degree angle and the pipe is 2 feet high the lever will be about 10 feet long. If the bellows is 5 feet high the lever would be about 25 feet long. If the bellow were at 5 degrees and five feet high the lever would be about 58 feet long. That sounds like a sure win but I should consider the water in the bellows and how it effects the leverage.

Also I would need to have more water in the bellows so that it is not flat so that water can run off into the second chamber. So if the amount of water in the bellows reduces the leverage some then I have to take that into consideration. This is the variable that can be minimalized some by the amount of water in the bellows remaining the same but he lever increasing in size. So that if the lever can lift the water in the pipe it might also be able to push the water in the bellow easier because the bellow water is a fixed amount.

If I have a low enough angle on the lever so that the lever is really long compared to the height of the pipe and I have the water in the bellows at a minimum to do the task, then maybe by all of these advantages it would work out.

[preoccupied]

I might be onto something? I might be onto something!? I am! I am! I am! I am!

The angle of the Bellows and the height of the pipe has a huge mechanical difference. What if the angle of the bellows is 0.01 and the pipe is 5 feet high, the lever will be 28647.88946565295 feet long. I could fix the amount of water needed to be lifted at 1 foot from the point of the bellow and simply adjust the narrowness of the pipe to fit that amount of water. Then whatever amount of water would be on the lever would be on the lever but it would be on a twenty eight thousand foot lever. I got something here, I am pretty sure! This could enhance IC engines and could steal gravity. I'm going to be called a genius in the future. I'm patting myself on my back right now. And none of you can prove me wrong. I know I am right, now!

I might be onto something? I might be onto something!? You are being too modest, Tarsier79. Thank you though.

[Dunesbury]

How far end of lever go?

[Tarsier79]

Don't get too excited Preoccupied. It was just an expression. Not only do I not know how you would construct a bellows system in an IC engine, I don't see advantage in your drawing. Extending the lever exhibits no energy advantage. The further you extend it, the the less mass you have to drop a further distance, or the same mass drops through a smaller angle.

[preoccupied]

Dunesbury, a pipe 5 feet high with a bellows 0.01 degrees has a lever that is 28647.88 feet long. It's a sure bet. I mean that has to be perpetual motion in that scenario.

Tarsier79, you say the further you extend it, the less mass you have to drop a further distance. Are you saying that the amount of weight dropped is a relevant variable? I believe that maybe it is. I think that's wrong though because instead the distances of the pipe up and lever length are the real variable. The amount of water in the bellows will effect it too I think. If I set up so that a one foot amount of water in the bellows pumps up out of the pipe, then half of that amount would be on the lever. This lever which will be considered weightless is super long potentially. I tried to bing bellows but didn't see any example explaining how they are calculated and I can't figure it out in my head. Tarsier79, dare I saw we both don't know at this time how to calculate a bellows?

[preoccupied]

Tarsier79,
I think the the IC engine would be just like my ms painting but instead of water pushing on the lever, it's a regular piston instead of a weight, and that pushes mercury out of the bellows into a piston powered engine. (mercury is dense thus no need for supercharger?)

The IC engine rotates and pushes the mercury back into the bellows which would have no resistance because the combustion would have left by then. Then when the combustion happens again the bellows drops again and pushes the other bellows full, and the process rotates.

Lets just face it, I've found the answer. I am the best! Am I excited? Why not? I am sharing something special.

The volume of material being pressurized in the bellows and pushed through a pipe is subject to the pipe and not the mechanics that would be in levers on levers. The pipe makes the rules I think. In the IC engine if the material compressed is lesser amount than expected the pipe can just be thinner, because it's really the pressure changes that make up the energy and not the great volume of pressurized material.

I might not have all of the information together and I'm still learning, admittedly not very quickly - but Bellows = perpetual motion, most definitely.

[daanopperman]

Hi preoccupied ,

I would like to see a 7 liter V8 sloshing all that mercury around and get 3 hp from the engin , for it would take all the energy in the fuel just to move the mercury about . There would be no expanding gas to move the bellows , what would drive the engin . At 6000 rpm the mercury would penetrate a 100 mm cylinder head , or a bellow head .

[preoccupied]

haha well said daanopperman

Mercury poisoning sounds like an issue if it leaks out.

I believe that mercury would give more torque, so I might need just a little bit of it to run the engine. I don't know if that's true though, but it is the densest liquid. Can mercury be condensed? Wait, can liquids be condensed? If not then maybe what I'm looking for is a dense flexible gas for the bellows. Regular air could probably just be compressed before it is put in the bellows and then when it is compressed more it will compress that much more air into the tube for the IC engine. I think I erred. To err is human or I'm just stupid.

Edit

You have to admit though that if the same compression of air is trapped in the bellows as the piston when the piston is supposed to move, that if the piston is pushing on a twenty eight thousand foot lever that it would be able to compress the bellows with the same amount of compressed air in it because of the leverage on the lever. So this is a perpetual motion machine and it would work best as an amplifier for a IC engine. We could get like 5,000 miles per gallon of gasoline. I win Nobel prize and all the ladies want me. Thank god.

[Dunesbury]

How much 28000 foot lever weigh again?

[preoccupied]

28,000 foot lever weighs nothing for purposes of analyzing what would produce over unity. It's a good example that puts the possibilities in perspective.

Like the water in the bellows needs to push out about twice as much water as falls out of the pipe at the top. So that means the water in the bellow can be any amount and the amount of weight that sits on the lever can be reduced by the water in the bellow being reduced. So if I say there is one foot of water horizontally in the bellows, then a little less than half of that would be on the end of the lever and the length of the lever can be an astronomical 28,000 feet long. For the sake of example, the bellows and lever weigh nothing. So the water is definitely lifted by the lever and pushed through the pipe above five feet. Can you see the possibilities?

I swear I think I will win a Nobel prize and I think Nobel prizes are real chick magnets. I will be like hey babes, and they will be like - Oh it's suddenly getting hot in here I have to take off my clothes. Sweet!

[Dunesbury]

Congratulations!

[preoccupied]

Hell Yeah!

Happy Easter.

[daxwc]

Tarsier79

Extending the lever exhibits no energy advantage. The further you extend it, the the less mass you have to drop a further distance, or the same mass drops through a smaller angle.

Preoccupied take any lever and measure the stroke down compared to the load distance up. To get any mechanic advantage you are always at a loss of stroke. This is the problem you have to beat or get around if your using leveraged force.