Another claim to a working device...

[Grimer]

Some posts I made early on in this thread seem to be coming relevant.

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 356#112356
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 401#112401
...
"It seems to me that the machine depends on the conservation of angular momentum combined with the action of gravity.

If you sit on an office chair which is free to rotate and hold a heavy weight out at arms length which you rotate in a full circle then the chair will rotate a small angle. This is the conservation of angular momentum which seems to be the same thing as the conservation of jerk energy.

When we carry out this procedure in the vertical plane then Newtonian gravity comes into things. For a rotation where the heavy weight axis is at the same height as the chair axis gravity will act on a smaller lever arm on one side of the weight rotation than the other.

Now in the horizontal plane a full rotation of the weight only turns the chair by a small angle. Therefore one needs many rotations to turn the chair through 360°. That's why the RAR mill has many arms. Each provides a small rotation angle to the main shaft."...

[Tarsier79]

Grimer, don't be so gullible. RAR would not be modifying their "most efficient design" if it worked. Their original patent states it is using leverage, or switching levers through locking part of the arm. You cannot win through leverage. The advantage they gain through part of the cycle is lost in another. RAR is a "A great fat herd of fat, lazy, plump horses", but they aren't even wandering aimlessly.

[Ed]

True, but this thread contains "a great herd of lazy PM enthusiasts watching aimlessly".

[Grimer]

Grimer, don't be so gullible. RAR would not be modifying their "most efficient design" if it worked. Their original patent states it is using leverage, or switching levers through locking part of the arm. You cannot win through leverage. The advantage they gain through part of the cycle is lost in another. RAR is a "A great fat herd of fat, lazy, plump horses", but they aren't even wandering aimlessly.

I always believe in looking on the bright side. :-)

I don't see it as leverage but as transmitting angular momentum.

From a strictly personal point of view I hope they don't succeed since it will give an opportunity for my Gravity Pulse Motor to be the first to harness gravity on a continuous intermittent basis.

[Ed]

Go for it Frank. Get yourself an old chair and some tie wraps and make it happen! ;-)

[Jon J Hutton]

https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm ... Ribeiro%22

He definately likes patents and inventions. I doubt he has built all of them.

[Grimer]

Go for it Frank. Get yourself an old chair and some tie wraps and make it happen! ;-)

I don't really need to since logic shows it will work (I'm a Greek at heart, not a Roman).

Interestingly enough I have realised that the locus of the RAR active weight is of the same form as that of my Gravity Pulse Motor - which makes me even more confident that the RAR works.

[Grimer]

https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm ... Ribeiro%22

He definitely likes patents and inventions. I doubt he has built all of them.

All the more reason to think that his models worked as he claimed. He is obviously not a one trick pony.

[murilo]

Easy to see that you are enthusiast on this kind of stuff.

Do you also have own designs?

Hi Murilo,

Actually I'm not enthusiast about this type of machine because I'm sure they can't work, sorry! What impress me in RAR Energia is how or why a successful businessmen is spending such huge money in an impossible project. I'm also very curious about how it will end.

Best regards

poa_engineer,
tudo bem?

As you know, this is a non scientific Forum... don't mind what some other will say...

Non scientific may be also a classification for those that face adventures, imagination, figuration, perspicacity, training, inspiration, etc, so as people that dare to 'pay to see'. (I'm not talking about innocent 'believers' and those lottery gamblers of weird invention.)

If you was a 'classic engineer', you wouldn't be here... so I'll take the risk to show you a truly non classic design for a device!

Look at this: http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6064

This is just the theoretic conception for a mechanism, where a special articulated solid potential is 'forced' to flow under gravity acceleration.

My skills and other resources was not enough.

Don't get nervous, ok?

Can you send me a pragmatic opinion without the axioms we all already know?

I'm plenty of arguments and some points are to be sent during discussion.

Thanx a lot!
Murilo

PS, last edition: when I say >>'where a special articulated solid potential is 'forced' to flow under gravity acceleration.'<< I mean 'flow' as do all lighter side of those 2 plates balance, and nothing more.

[poa_engineer]

Hi Murilo,

Tudo bem. Really sorry to disappoint you but I believe in science, specially physics, and this includes the axioms too. I'm probably what you call a "classical engineer", sorry. :-) This way I don't believe your or any other perpetual motion machine can work, although yours is very creative and interesting.

If you want, we can discuss your design anyway, but I need some help to understand your idea. Do you have a more detailed description, including the forces that make it move?

Best regards

[Grimer]

@ poa_engineer

I hope you don't mind my asking but if you are a "classical engineer" what on earth possessed you to contact this forum who you must view as a lot of deluded amateurs.

Incidentally, your English is very good. How so?

[murilo]

Hi Murilo,

Tudo bem. Really sorry to disappoint you but I believe in science, specially physics, and this includes the axioms too. I'm probably what you call a "classical engineer", sorry. :-) This way I don't believe your or any other perpetual motion machine can work, although yours is very creative and interesting.

If you want, we can discuss your design anyway, but I need some help to understand your idea. Do you have a more detailed description, including the forces that make it move?

Best regards

poa,
thanx indeed for your consideration!
Later on, I'll put a msg at that other proper thread.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Grimer,
poa maybe still doesn't know, but I guess he's not exactly from the dark...
I bet as his english is much netter than your portuguese. B)

[Unbalanced]

I apologize up front for perpetuating the high-jacking of this thread Dwayne.

Poa_engineer wanted to know what force made the Avalanche drive move and never received an answer.

Though it’s not my place to answer this, I suspect at present, it is the power of the supposed Big Bang that initiated the hydrogen reaction that is our sun that grew the grass that fed the cow that Murilo ate to power his hand in moving the upper wheel.

No slight intended to my Brazilian friend.

Perhaps the phenomenon described in the following video should be considered as a possible refinement to your devise (that you have so tenaciously clung to) Murilo.

Instead of the friction-rife chain with wheels you currently utilize, perhaps a ball chain would be better and just maybe this phenomenon (shown in the video) would suffice to do away with your upper wheel.

http://www.livescience.com/42565-gravit ... ained.html

scroll down to video

[Unbalanced]

It all appears to be like the image below to me.

[poa_engineer]

@ poa_engineer

I hope you don't mind my asking but if you are a "classical engineer" what on earth possessed you to contact this forum who you must view as a lot of deluded amateurs.

Incidentally, your English is very good. How so?

Grimer,

I found this topic searching on Google about RAR Energia and I notice you discussed the design very carefully. It seemed to be the right place to share my pictures and to try to understand this weird enterprise. Actually I didn't realize that there were lot of "believers". But I'm not the only skeptic here, am I?

Regarding my English, thanks a lot! I just didn't write enough for you to catch my errors. :-) In fact I used to use English a lot at work for some time.