Persistent Motor aka Avalanchedrive aka Gravity Turbine

[murilo]

Hello,
even the annoyed puppets on BW Forum will agree that I'm quiet for long time.

Since we have new members coming everyday, I guess that they must be introduced to my conceptions, indeed/also present on 'Albums'.

I started here in 2003 with the statement that my device will for sure speed and turn with happy and cold power.

My unforgivable thin is to be an absolutely incompetent, as a builder and drawer, and... the stuff stuck while turbulent and not consistent words are spread in our threads.

For sure, we have the obligation to experiment and try everything, but you will agree that for me NO HELP has arrived... a mystery?

Some designs are here sent and it would be great if new or old comers, respecting my IQ, could say where, when and how the lighter side would NOT rise up!

The main thing are the conceptions and you pragmatic arguments, ok?

Thanx, regards and take care!
Murilo

[murilo]

Two more files.
Try to guess how will the wheel NOT turn under high torsion!
I'm plenty of arguments!
Remember: main thing are the conceptions for the design!

[Tarsier79]

My unforgivable thin is to be an absolutely incompetent, as a builder and drawer, and..

M. Your biggest problem is not understanding your own device, and when people tell you why it can't work, you tell them/us we all don't understand.

Yes, there is a large force differential between the left and right sides of your design. What you can't understand is the opposite force differential is required to spread the links and force them into the open position.

Your design is no different to this: http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/annex.htm#sssd

For the newbies: an insight into Murilos device, and his reaction to criticism. http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/newacqui.htm#chain


Insert M.s usual abuse below.....

[ovyyus]

Remember: main thing are the conceptions for the design!

Correct.

Now all the new members coming everyday can be up to date.

[johannesbender]

murilo just build the thing to satisfy yourself , i do not see it being difficult in construction all you need is 2 gears , a couple of allumunium sections , washers bolts nuts , some small wheels/pulleys .

even i wil be attempting a construction of recent ideas , if i cannot settle its failure on paper and its reletively easy in construction the next best thing is to build it and then learn , sometimes its best to learn from real world application .

i were never aware that murilo's idea lays in the dark dusty museum of unworkable devices .

[murilo]

Johannesbender,
thank you for your reasonable and civilized appreciation!

Yes, I did every stuff I could do and the results of accumulated experience is that the stuff will speed at 'g' V, or potential + acceleration.

Look at the model photo at my visit room... I'm not a builder and nor enough a computer nerd to simulate, but a lot of things happen when the axle is hold on ground!

The lighter side 'floats' just like rises the lighter plate of a balance. B)

Simanek is just one more of those who will inside the mean flux of future... (B)

Best!
M

[murilo]

My unforgivable thin is to be an absolutely incompetent, as a builder and drawer, and..

M. Your biggest problem is not understanding your own device, and when people tell you why it can't work, you tell them/us we all don't understand.

Yes, there is a large force differential between the left and right sides of your design. What you can't understand is the opposite force differential is required to spread the links and force them into the open position.

Your design is no different to this: http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/annex.htm#sssd

For the newbies: an insight into Murilos device, and his reaction to criticism. http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/newacqui.htm#chain


Insert M.s usual abuse below.....

Yes, darling...
Since you ask, I'll guess about something for you, ok?
TC!
Murilos

[Ed]

Simanek's site is valuable in the case of people who repeat the same design patterns over and over, or come up with ideas without thinking them all the way through. I understand his attitude with these kind of people (I share it), but I believe he will eat his words when someone finally does "think differently".

As for Jim's analysis of your avalanche drive, he calculated many variables of it in Visual Basic, plotted out a number of turns and then animated it. He thinks it will not work based on this analysis, but he was absolutely convinced, using the same method, that he had a working device! Without first building his device, he proclaimed he was passed the first two points of his The Plan. That's why his plan is rubbish. In his view, the first item "Get something that works" can mean; on paper, in a computer, in his head, etc.

Anyway Murilo, you obviously have good building skills to some degree, actually to a larger degree than many. I understand why (I think) your device probably won't work. That is nothing personal. I haven't lived your idea like you have. Only you know your absolute complete design. Maybe you have explained it all to us, maybe you have not, and maybe you have come up with a few new tricks since you last explained it.

Whatever the case is, you have to ask yourself this question..."what is the way forward?" I think with your skills there is more you can do to answer to yourself if the idea is still viable. The material you present here is stale and in need of being renewed and advanced, if you do think this device will work. If you need help with specific areas of the idea, break it down and ask here on the forum. I'm sure there will be people happy to try to help.

[johannesbender]

i agree with Ed here , develope and adapt and evolve .

i cannot say that your ideas wil/wont work , but some ideas that might be usefull is i would belt/chain the gears together and do something to prevent the bottom right of the bottom gear to compress the concertina arms ...

[murilo]

This thread is started in the hope to find a new member help!

I'm convinced that help is not coming from the old one, since all them face this forum as a trash car race! ( for sure, some are really stupid and jealous. B(

Hard to understand when you dare to think that I'm hiding something! Be sure, everything is there, OPEN to your intelligent visualization!!!

Please ask me pragmatically upon any thing you can!

For sure the straight person will understand and fall in love on it.

The use of a belt that 'works' inside the chain proved to be not good, even when axle is grounded. My real issues are those HOOKS that let chain scape down.

(The device's body armature you see is from 2006 and it's not the first one, but third.)

Thanx/Best!

[murilo]

Dear poa_engineer,
oi!

As agreed, I'll send to you basic, very basic, tips upon avalanchedrive.

The main is inside this BW link: http://www.besslerwheel.com/murilo/index.html
( look at the intermediary stages sketches of the used chain.)

There are still a few stuffs to guess:

- a geometry trick compare 2 suspended masses of different weight, or -50%.

- this comparison is done with the use of the diameter of a wheel, designed to support.

- main mass applies a 'charge' punctually on the wheel's perimeter

- the masses are composed by a same special metallic body (the chain) that may vary its shape, extending and contracting and turn. The great number of contacts between all parts are not losses, but provisional assembling under 'g' pressure/action.

- this is all the basic: we get 2 piles with same vertical measure and compare, rising... what means, from below to the top, with poor/gentle touch to side rails. (the main axle is to be hold in 80%.)

- remember: hence the lighter plate of the balance rises... my design will do the same but in repetitive way... and more, under 'g' acceleration!

- possible variations? Yes, absolutely... thousands... but for similar conception.

Please try to understand my clean and honest explanation.

Thanx/best!
M

[Tarsier79]

M's Avalanche will not work due to the fundamentals of leverage. Adapting and Evolveing will change that. Changing the design of the sprockets will not help. Inventing new chain links will not help. Changing the method by which the chain is extended at the bottom will not help. Lifting the light pile at the top instead of pushing it up will not help. Changing how the heavy pile is supposed to drive the device around will not help. Changing the guides to a different shape will not help.

The horse is dead, crows have eaten its flesh, and its bones have turned to chalk. Whipping it will not get it to rise to its feet to pull the plow.

[Brian3051]

@Tarsier79,
What M's Avalanche needs to do is to store energy. This would require a secondary system. If you consider Thermodynamics, no system can increase it's own potential.
A secondary system could increase the amplitude while being passive. Just a basic way of saying it has an increased density and/or mass.

[murilo]

Brian, or Brain???

You show a fresh wind of intelligence to 'others'...

Be sure! The true unbalance is all around in the device.

Inside my mind, I deal to a secret resource for mech energy accumulation, with many easy and sure 'management'.

The expansible chain is a goal itself! It's incredible as only a few guys can see this!

Sorry for the self-advertising!

Best!
M

[murilo]

Sorry, if I forgot an important tip for the chain nice behavior under gravity, as I wish in my design:

By all means, the AXLE of the under wheel MUST be grounded and well hold to structure!

Without this support all the set will tend to 'arm', or stuck, as an inverted roman arch.