cloud camper wrote:Since Scott has not yet changed the forum title to the Jim Mich Appreciation Forum and is still presumably open to all comers and not just JM's ideas, there will of course be continued and lively dialog.
Evidently Jim has gotten the idea that there was a special soapbox dedicated solely to himself and he should be insulated from any and all disagreeing viewpoints.
Since Jim has yet to provide a single coherent physics argument why his ideas should be valued above all others, a wide range of differing viewpoints can be expected.
If Jim expects attention and respect claiming runner after runner based on ignorant understanding of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_force he must then not be surprised that he has become the forum laughingstock.
As all of Jim’s physics ideas have now been fully debunked and his wheels failed, where does Jim expect this undivided attention to be derived?
Apparently, Jim is a firm believer in Einstein’s maxim of doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.
Incidentally I have now completed downloadable WM2D demos of Jim’s (now Bill’s) idea of an inner weight possessing a higher CF value than an outer weight, presumably causing “pumping� of a wheel.
This is shown NOT to be the case and will be shown as just another example of JM’s ignorant physics.
Why bother posting?
Moderator: scott
cloud camper attacks me again. So who is the bully?
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re: Why bother posting?
My opinion Jim, every post of yours that will include the question " who is the bully " ............DON'T BOTHER posting!
. I can assure the reader that there is something special behind the stork's bills.
Re: re: Why bother posting?
daxwc wrote:Furcurequs:What it tells me: "It gained its potential or running RPM in just a couple, three turns." This would indicate that the outer rim was light and not relied upon as a massive flywheel for its inertial dampening effect. Possibly as the machine gained in RPM the weights then proceeded to the rim, requiring more force to stop the inertial-kinetic properties than it took to start it.Btw, the dynamic start and stop tests of Bessler's wheels that we have some eyewitness discriptions of do tell us a great deal about how much energy could have been stored in the rotation. ...and so by those accounts, for wheels that large they certainly weren't much in the way of flywheels. The rim had to have been relatively light - despite your truly ignorant and contradictory arguments in the other thread. To calculate such things is truly just basic physics, which again you apparently don't know.
Ralph
re: Why bother posting?
Preoccupied Wrote:
If he can afford to blow money on a known useless project, don't tell me that expense is his excuse for not working on his primary motion theory.
I like some of his other excuses better: Such as the one when he stated that he was waiting for his divorce to be finalized so he would not have to share with his ex! Or how about the one where he lead us to believe he was in the process of making desk top models out of vacuum formed plastic to send to certain members.
How many times has he used the excuse: "Just following the plan" when confronted by Bill?
Yet he has plenty of time to attempt translating Bessler's writings and is concerned about how the forum will react to it. Well for what it is worth, if the German people of his day that were educated in German could not figure it out, then what are present chances of finding it. Were all the educated Germans of Bessler's era nincompoops without the innovative/discerning oomph to find the solution? I do not think so!
Ralph
Bullcrap! He can afford the expense of travel and purchase of PVC pipe and fittings, to build a non-working wheel just to appease those who flamed him for not showing any builds. IMO this is not a sign of being financially strapped!I believe Jim already answered this question before. If I remember correctly, he is on a budget. When Sir Isaac Newton was asked to publish his mathematics that would explain comets he said he didn't have enough money. How do you know that Jim_Mich isn't holding something as similar valuable as Sir Isaac Newton had but isn't funded, just like Newton?
If he can afford to blow money on a known useless project, don't tell me that expense is his excuse for not working on his primary motion theory.
I like some of his other excuses better: Such as the one when he stated that he was waiting for his divorce to be finalized so he would not have to share with his ex! Or how about the one where he lead us to believe he was in the process of making desk top models out of vacuum formed plastic to send to certain members.
How many times has he used the excuse: "Just following the plan" when confronted by Bill?
Yet he has plenty of time to attempt translating Bessler's writings and is concerned about how the forum will react to it. Well for what it is worth, if the German people of his day that were educated in German could not figure it out, then what are present chances of finding it. Were all the educated Germans of Bessler's era nincompoops without the innovative/discerning oomph to find the solution? I do not think so!
Ralph
re: Why bother posting?
Yeah, his useless...I mean famous The Plan, where the first item "Get something that works" is interpreted by him to mean "in a computer".
Then he wonders why nobody is interested in his "Bessler word twisting"?
Then he wonders why nobody is interested in his "Bessler word twisting"?
Bull-crap on you Ralph, for spewing such a lie. Where in the world did you get such an idea? I've ignored your ignorant claims about me so as to not embarrass you. But enough now. But up, or shut up. Show me where I ever said I built a wheel while knowing that it would not work, as you keep claiming.Ralph wrote:Bullcrap! He can afford the expense of travel and purchase of PVC pipe and fittings, to build a non-working wheel just to appease those who flamed him for not showing any builds. IMO this is not a sign of being financially strapped!
Re: re: Why bother posting?
What is the matter? Regardless of what I post, people bully and bash me. They claim I don't build wheels. So I post a picture of my latest build. Then they claim I only build wheels that I know won't work. What bull crap.justsomeone wrote:My opinion Jim, every post of yours that will include the question " who is the bully " ............DON'T BOTHER posting!
Then they claim that I don't know physics, but they turn around and say they are working on a gravity-wheel, which is obviously totally against all that is known about gravity.
And when I say that even Bessler wrote about how foolish it is to think one pound can lift four pounds, then these same people that claim they know more than I do, try to make wheels where one lifts four. What bull-crap.
But I dare not put forth any idea where motion might drive a wheel, for that is like blasphemy to people's ears. And some say I should not discuss such things. They say I'm twisting Bessler's words.
And then if I say anything about the personal insult hurled at me, I'm told to suck it up. Or stop posting.
And when I bashed back, then people asked where is the nice guy that used to be Jim_Mich?
So again, Why should I bother posting anything at all?
How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?
In AP, Part Two, Chapter 43, Bessler wrote...
Keep their free hunt, [their hunt for equilibrium]
which are now always two and two; [two and two causes a balanced wheel]
change a thing outward the position, [one weight out]
such drives the other to the shaft; [other weight in]
this is soon here, and that there: [oscillation]
and also swaps, forth and forth. [as they hunt for equilibrium]
This weight to the Center returns, [one weight in]
and that to the extent/height drives.[other weight out]
because German may I here not talk, [too much plain talk...]
else open all window-shutters; [might unshutter/unhide the principle]
Man/You do, suppose, mean, dictate/write [Man/you is Wagner]
same already towards yet so many weights; [Same is the one lift four concept]
Who/anybody this from can speculate/hope, [One lifting four is speculation]
would soon the running perpetuate; [Would run if one could lift four]
Who/anybody but/however this still not know; [that one can't lift four]
since/then is in vain all diligence/hard_work; [then they work in vain]
-----------------
Bessler says that you can judge/guess the wonderful exploits of the weights. The wonderfulness is the method whereby Bessler gets the weights to return back to the center against significant centrifugal forces.
Notice that Bessler does not talk about rising and falling of weights Such talk of one pound lifting four pounds came from Wagner. When Bessler talked previously, in 1712, about weights moving in and out, then Wagner assumed Bessler meant up and down, and thus Wagner brought this whole untruth onto Bessler. The untruth of weights rising and falling. The untruth of one pound lifting four pounds.
Bessler writes that if he talks too much about his wheels, then the hidden shuttered principle might become open.
Note that Bessler writes:
"outward position" and "other to the shaft".
Not up and down. But in and out.
Then he repeats this for emphasis:
"weight to the center" then "that to the Höhe/height/extent drives".
Again, in and out. Inward to the center. Outward to the extent or edge of the wheel.
Yes, some will claim "Höhe" also means upward, which is true. But it is clear that Bessler is writing about the same situation in both cases. First instance the weights moving out and in. The second instance the weights moving in and out. Same situation is repeated for emphasis. It's a common writing practice to repeat information so as to make it more memorable.
The weights moving upward is only hinted at because the primary meaning "Höhe" is upward. But never does Bessler write about weights inside his wheel moving downward or about weights moved by gravity, which would indicate downward. He writes of in and out. Out and in. And how wonderful such motion is accomplished.
IMO, Bessler's wheel was not a weight-driven gravity-wheel.
IMO, Bessler's wheel was a weight-driven motion-wheel.
Obviously, this is all my opinions. If you can't present logical reasons to refute such opinions, then don't revert to personally bashing me, like Ed and cloud camper do repeatedly.
Jim's notes...Will otherwise a doubt-lion roar?
Which make me first guess intent;
Then so sit he there;
The work such run without shyness.
Because all internal form,
perpetual-like structure
Keep their free hunt,
Like year 1712 I already said;
Will as also yet here, fact brief describe:
Namely, a craft-work must itself drive
by many separate pieces lead;
which are now always two and two;
change a thing outward the position,
such drives the other to the shaft;
this is soon here, and that there:
and also swaps, forth and forth.
(and this Principle it is simply,
why to me Wagner blame given
and whole untruth on me brought,
I hast nobody made to believe).
At this time, like yet one each take_a_guess,
by what kind_of wonderful exploits
This weight to the Center returns,
and that to the extent/height drives.
because German may I here not talk,
else open all window-shutters;
However will friend-willing about
This Nota Bene more set here:
He shall a great artist be_called,
Who/anybody a heavy thing lightly high can throw,
And when a pound a quarter/fourth falls,
it four pound high four quarters/fourths shoots/snaps.
Who/anybody this from can speculate/hope,
would soon the running perpetuate;
Who/anybody but/however this still not know;
since/then is in vain all diligence/hard_work;
Man/You do, suppose, mean, dictate/write
same already towards yet so many weights;
His thing thereof rather is heavy,
And run much longer, were it empty;
Yes, it goes such his things,
as if equal to so much sparrows
themselves dreadfully bite around and around
On a still mill-wheel run;
as I recently truthfully observed,
when I to such quarrel come.
Keep their free hunt, [their hunt for equilibrium]
which are now always two and two; [two and two causes a balanced wheel]
change a thing outward the position, [one weight out]
such drives the other to the shaft; [other weight in]
this is soon here, and that there: [oscillation]
and also swaps, forth and forth. [as they hunt for equilibrium]
This weight to the Center returns, [one weight in]
and that to the extent/height drives.[other weight out]
because German may I here not talk, [too much plain talk...]
else open all window-shutters; [might unshutter/unhide the principle]
Man/You do, suppose, mean, dictate/write [Man/you is Wagner]
same already towards yet so many weights; [Same is the one lift four concept]
Who/anybody this from can speculate/hope, [One lifting four is speculation]
would soon the running perpetuate; [Would run if one could lift four]
Who/anybody but/however this still not know; [that one can't lift four]
since/then is in vain all diligence/hard_work; [then they work in vain]
-----------------
Bessler says that you can judge/guess the wonderful exploits of the weights. The wonderfulness is the method whereby Bessler gets the weights to return back to the center against significant centrifugal forces.
Notice that Bessler does not talk about rising and falling of weights Such talk of one pound lifting four pounds came from Wagner. When Bessler talked previously, in 1712, about weights moving in and out, then Wagner assumed Bessler meant up and down, and thus Wagner brought this whole untruth onto Bessler. The untruth of weights rising and falling. The untruth of one pound lifting four pounds.
Bessler writes that if he talks too much about his wheels, then the hidden shuttered principle might become open.
Note that Bessler writes:
"outward position" and "other to the shaft".
Not up and down. But in and out.
Then he repeats this for emphasis:
"weight to the center" then "that to the Höhe/height/extent drives".
Again, in and out. Inward to the center. Outward to the extent or edge of the wheel.
Yes, some will claim "Höhe" also means upward, which is true. But it is clear that Bessler is writing about the same situation in both cases. First instance the weights moving out and in. The second instance the weights moving in and out. Same situation is repeated for emphasis. It's a common writing practice to repeat information so as to make it more memorable.
The weights moving upward is only hinted at because the primary meaning "Höhe" is upward. But never does Bessler write about weights inside his wheel moving downward or about weights moved by gravity, which would indicate downward. He writes of in and out. Out and in. And how wonderful such motion is accomplished.
IMO, Bessler's wheel was not a weight-driven gravity-wheel.
IMO, Bessler's wheel was a weight-driven motion-wheel.
Obviously, this is all my opinions. If you can't present logical reasons to refute such opinions, then don't revert to personally bashing me, like Ed and cloud camper do repeatedly.
re: Why bother posting?
I would only resort to "bashing" Jim, when he puts his fingers in his ears and says "No, no, no, I don't conflate translation with interpretation!".
Otherwise, Jim is 100% full of crap about me "bashing" him and what constitutes a bash. Maybe he's a Linux administrator?
Otherwise, Jim is 100% full of crap about me "bashing" him and what constitutes a bash. Maybe he's a Linux administrator?
re: Why bother posting?
jim_mich wrote:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... highlight=
Before build;
look here, page one first post last paragraph, and then again on page 8Show me where I ever said I built a wheel while knowing that it would not work, as you keep claiming.
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... highlight=
Before build;
After build;Obviously my wheels don't work. Wheels must be out-of-balance and use gravity to self-rotate. My wheel is balanced. Besides, perpetual motion is impossible. ;)}
Obviously my wheels don't work. Wheels must be out-of-balance and use gravity to self-rotate. My wheel is balanced. Besides, perpetual motion is impossible. ;)}
Good grief Ralph, don't you recognize sarcasm when it jumps out and almost bites you? Or are you an old senile idiot? Not I'm not calling you such, but the thought has crossed my mind when you post such bull-crap.
Definition: Translation is the process of translating words or text from one language into another.
Definition: Interpretation is the action of explaining the meaning of something.
Definition: Conflate is combine (two or more texts, ideas, etc.) into one.
The words within my quote box above is translation.
What follows as Jim's notes is interpretation by Jim_Mich.
In order to understand Bessler's words, you first need an accurate translation. If you think any word is translated wrong, then speak up. I expect I'll hear crickets in that respect.
Then in order to understand what he meant, you might need interpretation. This takes some understanding of the subject matter, else the interpretation gets skewed.
Then the translation must be conflated with the interpretation in order to gain understanding. Without mixing translation with interpretation, understanding is not found.
Without understanding, a solution to Bessler's wheel is near impossible, specially when one seeks a gravity-wheel if a motion-wheel is the solution.
Definition: Bashing is severe criticism.Ed wrote:I would only resort to "bashing" Jim, when he puts his fingers in his ears and says "No, no, no, I don't conflate translation with interpretation!"
Otherwise, Jim is 100% full of crap about me "bashing" him and what constitutes a bash. Maybe he's a Linux administrator?
Definition: Translation is the process of translating words or text from one language into another.
Definition: Interpretation is the action of explaining the meaning of something.
Definition: Conflate is combine (two or more texts, ideas, etc.) into one.
The words within my quote box above is translation.
What follows as Jim's notes is interpretation by Jim_Mich.
In order to understand Bessler's words, you first need an accurate translation. If you think any word is translated wrong, then speak up. I expect I'll hear crickets in that respect.
Then in order to understand what he meant, you might need interpretation. This takes some understanding of the subject matter, else the interpretation gets skewed.
Then the translation must be conflated with the interpretation in order to gain understanding. Without mixing translation with interpretation, understanding is not found.
Without understanding, a solution to Bessler's wheel is near impossible, specially when one seeks a gravity-wheel if a motion-wheel is the solution.
re: Why bother posting?
Jim_mich,
I got the response I was expecting:
"Good grief Ralph, don't you recognize sarcasm when it jumps out and almost bites you? Or are you an old senile idiot?"
I knew the ";)}" were added for a reason! This only reinforces my belief that you knew your build would not work. I call it covering your butt.
So why did you build it if not for appeasement for those who questioned your ability? Would not the time and expense been better spent on your motion wheel design that you lead others into believing you have? Or was that your motion wheel design?
As for senility, at my age, it would not surprise me, but I wonder if it is not being shared?
Ralph
I got the response I was expecting:
"Good grief Ralph, don't you recognize sarcasm when it jumps out and almost bites you? Or are you an old senile idiot?"
I knew the ";)}" were added for a reason! This only reinforces my belief that you knew your build would not work. I call it covering your butt.
So why did you build it if not for appeasement for those who questioned your ability? Would not the time and expense been better spent on your motion wheel design that you lead others into believing you have? Or was that your motion wheel design?
As for senility, at my age, it would not surprise me, but I wonder if it is not being shared?
Ralph
Jim, are you an asshole? I just wondered. Not that I'm calling you one, but are you?
We already have accurate translations. We have Mike's, Andrew's, Stewart's and Ricky's, but you don't care about any of that. You'll hear crickets with restless leg syndrome from now on, because you have no interest in disussing this rationally. It's been discussed before and it's been discussed recently, in private. Oh, what's the matter? You not invited? Too bad for Jimmy, because it was settled rather quickly with no senile old idiot to, wait... was that a question or a statement? Ah who cares!jim_mich wrote:In order to understand Bessler's words, you first need an accurate translation. If you think any word is translated wrong, then speak up. I expect I'll hear crickets in that respect.
Or like seeking the truth where only make-believe is to be found.jim_mich wrote:Without understanding, a solution to Bessler's wheel is near impossible, specially when one seeks a gravity-wheel if a motion-wheel is the solution.