Why bother posting?

[jim_mich]

Bill, are you an idiot or a liar?

What would be a small 'proof of principle' wheel? Definition of 'proof of principle"...

A proof of concept (POC) is a demonstration, the purpose of which is to verify that certain concepts or theories have the potential for real-world application. POC is therefore a prototype that is designed to determine feasibility, but does not represent deliverables.

Proof of concept is also known as proof of principle.

I never said anything about 'my plan' when I emailed you.
Therefore, there was no implied step by step.
Such a reference to 'my plan' has no relevance here.

The question is still, Am I guilty of lying?
Did I state anything that was not true?
The answer is, No!
Everything I stated was true.

Did I attempt to deceive?
Again, the answer is, No!
There was no attempt at deception.

Everything that I wrote to Bill was true.
Bill was the one that lied, by claiming that I lied to him.

Bill can deflect all he wants.
The facts are plain and true.

So, Bill, are you an idiot or a liar?

------------------

Daxwc, you are the one lying and misleading members.

My 'plan' was conceived 11 years ago...
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... ?p=853#853
Notice that was post number #853.

Step 'A' is to find a solution to Bessler's wheel.
I have found a principle, a concept, a solution.

Step 'D' is building a 'proof of principle' model.

Without step 'D', one cannot prove that step 'A' is successful.

I wrote to Bill that I was building a 'proof of principle' model.
I never said, nor implied, that I had a working wheel.
Bill wrongly assumed such.
Then Bill lied by saying that I lied to him.

Those are the facts.
Case closed.

[ovyyus]

Pathetic

[rlortie]

Pathetic; yes, case closed; not quite!

Jim, you now state clearly for all to read that you have found a principle, a concept, a solution. There is no way you can twist this statement in the future.

Around 16 months ago you said you would make delivery of your proof of principle models in three months or it may take a little longer. You then led me to believe (assume with objective input) you were making them out of vacuum formed plastic.

So I ask you; where are these Proof Of Concept desktop models? Does Bill have one, you said you would deliver?

Ralph

[Furcurequs]

jim_mich,

I'm feeling left out. I accused you of lying too! Don't you remember? I even accused you in this very thread!

See:

... You did resort to outright lying about me, you know, rather than just being man enough to admit you were truly mistaken when YOU LOST MY WAGER WITH YOU FOR ALL THE FORUM TO SEE. ...

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 679#127679

Okay, okay. You've already given me another "who's the bully?" and some short snarky comment about my building materials and my seriousness as a PM seeker.

(Oh, by the way, I don't actually use paper plates. I don't have any of those. I use used food packaging materials instead.)

Oh, and yes, you also did in return accuse me again of bashing you and falsely lying about you, too, but really, is that all I get?!

Seriously, why should I even bother posting if that's all I can get from you anymore?!

I miss the good old days when you only acted like Clod Crapper, or whoever, and I were the only bad guys.

Cloud Camper, btw, I do agree with Ed. You probably shouldn't be putting jim_mich's name on drawings of specific mechanisms. ...unless, of course, maybe you can provide descriptive quotes and/or drawings from jim_mich himself to back it up.

Maybe you can, though? He's not exactly been very truthful lately. ...see above.

If you can't find those, though, to be critical of, don't fret. There are still plenty of other good quotes he's made from which we can choose.

;)

Take care.

Dwayne

[jim_mich]

Ralph, can't you read? I want to just scream, "YOU IDIOT"

Step 'A' is to find a solution to Bessler's wheel.
I have found a principle, a concept, a solution.

Step 'D' is building a 'proof of principle' model.

Without step 'D', one cannot prove that step 'A' is successful.

Step 'D' and 'F' are the designing and the building of a wheel in an attempt to prove the principle works.

You guys fail to understand the meaning of a 'proof of principle' wheel.

Ralph, every wheel that you build is a 'proof of principle' wheel, where you are trying to prove the principle of operation of your wheel.

Finding a principle, a concept, a solution, is not that same thing as having a 'working wheel'.

Did I say I had a 'working wheel'?

[rlortie]

You know, there is some good things us old codgers can do and get away with. One is to sit quietly and reminisce about things in the past. In today's world instead of playing solitaire we can browse the internet.

Kind of funny when you learn how things seem to come around making a full circle about every 10 years!

Friday, February 27, 2004 7:57 PM

http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory ... index.html

Kind of puts some stamina back into the old ticker!

[ovyyus]

Does Bill have one, you said you would deliver?

Of course I don't have one, Ralph. That's because it's fiction dressed up as fact just to make one person feel that he's special. Special, no. Special needs, yes. We've seen it before, we'll see it again.

[jim_mich]

Bill attacks me again. So who is the bully?

Of course I don't have one, Ralph. That's because it's fiction dressed up as fact just to make one person feel that he's special. Special, no. Special needs, yes. We've seen it before, we'll see it again.

Bill would you like a non-working POP wheel? What good would that do you?

[Ed]

Jim, here is another post of mine, with facts, for you to ignore.

"lie: to create a false or misleading impression"

I never said anything about 'my plan' when I emailed you.

That was in April of 2013.

My 'plan' was conceived 11 years ago...

Step 'A' is to find a solution to Bessler's wheel.

No Jim. As you know, your A reads "A] First get something that works!!!" You've ironically plastered The Plan all over the forum, in an apparent attempt to get people to adopt it. Search for "the 'PLAN'" or "my 'PLAN'". It probably ranks higher than "Who's the bully?".

I have found a principle, a concept, a solution.

And it's probably just days away, right? Give us a break! You even had to exaggerate the 'works' part by adding three exclamation marks!!! Obviously you were illustrating to people that this was the big achievement step, which it should be.

I wrote to Bill that I was building a 'proof of principle' model.
I never said, nor implied, that I had a working wheel.

Wrong Jim. The facts are that you pushed the plan on the forum eleven years ago, and many times since. When you told Bill about the PoP models you were building, he had every right to think the implication was that you were following your hallowed plan.

[rlortie]

Jim,

If you have the "solution" then why the hell are you wasting your time here? Instead of worrying about whether you should post or not, get your lazy ass into the shop and build your damn solution!

Now you are saying that you do not have a POP, is that correct?

OK! so I am an idiot, does that make you feel better? Once again while you mince (weaken one's words especially for the sake of decorum) with terminology. That is OKAY I am use to being called an idiot. Being one seems to help find things that others believe is impossible. I owe it to my father for bouncing me up and down on his knee, boy did we ever have a low ceiling!

I Find a principle, a concept, and a possible solution quite frequently, it is not that same thing as having a 'working wheel'. As a matter of fact I am endeavoring over one right now! I am not asking anyone not to post certain items in trade for a prototype that likely will never be delivered.

Either you have it or you don't, which is it going to be? Did you say you had a working wheel 10 years ago?

[daxwc]

jim_mich:
Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:46 pm Post subject:
________________________________________

Daxwc, I'm not "playing games". I'm simply following 'MY PLAN' that I posted a long time ago. If you don't like my plan, then tough. I assume from your statement that you think I'm a troll and should not post anything. If that be the case then everyone is a troll and thus no one should ever post anything about their wheel activities. Is that what you want?

If I say I have a working wheel, then the trolls will claim I don't, because I refuse to disclose it (being that I'm not yet fully prepared) and then the trolls will claim I'm a fraud. I simply front run the trolls by saying that 'officially' I don't have a running wheel because everyone knows that perpetual motion is impossible. And since PM is impossible, then having a running wheel must also be impossible. The only way to prove PM to be possible is to physically show it to the unbeliever. A picture or a video will never be proof enough. The unbeliever must be able to physically put their hands on a working wheel and inspect it for fraud. What better way to do this than for them to build it themselves? Then when it works, they cannot claim it a fraud. But who can afford a wheel costing thousands of dollars or a wheel that requires fancy manufacturing fixtures or machining of parts? The POP wheel must be cheap enough that anyone can afford a simple build and its construction must be simple enough that any handyman can build it.

All I'm doing is posting my current progress along my path to completing 'MY PLAN.' If you don't like me posting my progress or if you think I'm just a troll then don't read my threads. Don't read what I write. Alternately I could again quit posting. It's no big deal to me. I just thought maybe some forum members might be interested in my progress, without demanding I deviate from 'MY PLAN.'

justsomeone:

Jim, stating that you are just following your plan indicates that you are on step " d ".

You can't skip step " a " .

Of course step " a " doesn't specify whether a wheel that works in your mind qualifies.

Jim, is an actual working build required to satisfy step " a " ?

jim_mich:

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:17 pm Post subject:
________________________________________
Why do you think step 'A' has been skipped? There is no way anyone will believe a working wheel except they see it first hand. Thus, if I were to say I have a working wheel, no one will believe me. And skeptics will hound me. One must see a working wheel for themselves. Thus I must be able to provide information as to how to replicate such a wheel. And such instructional information needs clear explicit pictures. Thus a physical wheel must be built so that pictures can be taken. Other wheels constructed using different materials will not do. This wheel must be build to document the assembly steps needed. There are some experienced builders that could build from a single drawing. But some builders may need more detailed pictures. This wheel uses 40 PVC fittings and 35 pieces of pipe that need to be properly assembled and glued. With each joint you have maybe 3 to 5 minutes before the solvent glue sets up. If you get one fitting aligned improperly, you risk scrapping the whole assembly. Thus I'm in the process of documenting the best assembly order to assure a good and proper assembly. An experienced plumber would have no problems. But I want documents whereby even a klutz might be able to build a working wheel. I fear that when I file for a patent and the PTB understand the implications, then there may well be a secrecy order issued against me, like happened with the Gray motor. I need to have all documentations, instructions, pictures, etc. fully prepared and ready for release at the time I file for a patent. I may not have much time after filing. But as long as I keep looking like just another crank inventor in search of impossible PM, then I'll be left alone by the men in black.

[Ed]

Sounds like an implication to me!

[rlortie]

Why do you think step 'A' has been skipped? There is no way anyone will believe a working wheel except they see it first hand. Thus, if I were to say I have a working wheel, no one will believe me.

Please explain how and why you would build a POP if you do not have a working model. Once you have step 'A', you also have your POP.

Does stabbing a pencil through the center of a paper plate and giving it a spin qualify as a proof of concept? Laughable part is, yes it does qualify!

[Ed]

D] Design a simple cheap working POP (proof of principle) sample model.

Another implication. The use of POP in this context is a simple cheap model to replicate the aforementioned working device, in order to disseminate.

[rlortie]

Jim,

Why don't you take my advice, throw in the towel, walk away from this forum, head for your work space and build your solution.

You are correct on one thing, and that is it is going to take a working model to authenticate. Call it a working model or a POP or a POC, their all one and the same.

You sure not getting anything achieved here!