Weights???

[Tarsier79]

The displacement weights in Raj's design are pushed down by an outside force, gravity, just as the displacer is pushed down by my hand. Levering the displacer down against the walls of the container is a different approach.

[daanopperman]

Hi Tarsier79 ,

In a post by me , I think you will remember , in the community buzz forum , I put forward a idea with the topic " master weight " . That was the same idea but using solid weights , not water . The master weight was to drive 2 weights into a continious ob position while riding on a string .

raj ,

If you use weights with the same density as water you have to agree that there will be no shifting of com . If you use weights less dense than water , there should be a shift of com to the left of the container and drive the container to roll to the lh side . Using weights denser than water you will shift the com to the rh side of the container to make the container roll to the rh side . The com will fall to the heavier side .

[raj]

Hello Pals!

What do you make of this one?:

1. a drum wheel on horizontal axle.
2. pendulums.
3. floats fixed on arm of pendulums nearer to pivot points on rim of drum wheel.
4. weights/bobs of pendulums.
5. liquid (water) inside lower part of drum wheel. with water level almost covering float at the 6 o'clock position.

When drum wheel is given a push or pull, pendulum/weights will swing from the 12 o'clock position, towards the descending further from axle, only to be lifted back to the centre as float is raised upwards by the liquid/water from the the 5 o'clock position to an upright vertical position at 6 o'clock and get hooked there till the 12 o'clock position, just in time for resetting
positions.

So what do make of this concept?

Raj

[AB Hammer]

Raj

I have some concerns on it, due to the float when it impacts the liquid creating a stopping point instead of a lifting point. You will need a bit more IMHO like drag lines between every other one to help create lift with the float.


Alan

[Fletcher]

That's a good design Raj ..

Yes, there will be some fluid drag as the float enters the water but not much, especially if it turns slowly - also if it turns quite fast Cf's will cause the liquid to form a concave shape rising at the edges [like the water in a bucket experiment where it is spun on a string overhead].

The main problem I see at first look is the counter torque issue as the float enters the water - the pendulum pivot is to the right of the float [CW turning] & because the pendulum mass is on the other side of the float we get a sort of leverage or balance beam where the float in the water is the fulcrum - I think the pendulum bob mass attempting to be lifted will leverage against the float fulcrum & cause the wheel to slow down rapidly - ultimately I think the pendulum bob won't get lifted & the wheel will keel.

What you could do is just make a single pendulum & float experiment of some sort to test if the back torque is significant to be a show stopper or not.

[daanopperman]

Hi raj ,

In your design , you are lifting one weight with another weight . The path that the weight takes does not matter , it is the hight that the weight must rise that kills us . The distance that the weight rise is the same distance that the weight falls .

[justsomeone]

Isn't this basically a ramp design?

[Tarsier79]

Yes, it is.

Raj. I see why you designed this. It is the realisation that lifting weight is required. The problem with it is that you are ultimately lifting the weight with the power of the turning wheel. A lot of designs use energy from the rotation of the structure to lift. You need to separate the lifting function, or increase the wheel torque. Either way you need a third component/action.

ADD: Raj, what was the outcome from your last experiment with the submerged displacement weights?

[johannesbender]

raj buddy ,this is an idea I have thought of many times
too , the water and float lifting ,but there is quite alot
of obstacles to it too ,some of what has been mentioned by others here are things I haven't
even considered ,but I must add that my initial
problem with such a design were that water even
though movable is still mass on the bottom and
weights that goes around the cor adds another
big dilemma ,how would one manage the weights
such that the water is not the mass that keels the
design plus factor in that the movement of the liquid
would be unpredictable and hence what happens
to the com ?

so many difficulties seem to arrive ,you know ,one
step forward two steps back .

after hundreds of years we should really start asking
ourselves that if it were possible ,are we even looking
at the problem correctly. .

jb

[path_finder]

Dear raj,
An old idea (not tested) using Archimedes:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 295b#55439

[justsomeone]

This is the MT. Drawing that I was reminded of.

[raj]

Here is my next ( most likely unworkable attempt) refined Hydraulic Gravity Wheel Concept:

1. is a drum wheel 5 units radius and 5 units deep, on horizontal axle 2.
3. is a cylindrical wheel, 3 units radius and 4 units deep, 2 units ( COM) at 2 units length horizontally from axle 2 of 1, rolling/touching rim of 1 at the 9 o'clock position.
4. is a cylindrical wheel, 1 unit radius and 4 units deep, 4 units ( COM) at 4 unit length horizontally from axle(2) of 1, rolling/touching rim of 1 at the 3 o'clock position.
5. is a cylindrical wheel, 1 unit radius and 4 units deep, (COM) vertically below axle(2) resting/rolling/touching rim of 1 at 6 o'clock position.
6. is heavy density liquid inside lower half of drum wheel 1, (COM) estimated at 1unit length from vertical line through axle(2).

Ratio of mass of wheel3:wheel4:wheel5 is 2:1:1

The combined 4 COMS should overbalance drum wheel 1????

Raj

[raj]

A BIG THANK to Sleepy, for diverting my attention back to this thread.

Now, that I am looking at this concept afresh, IT looks very GOOD!

Raj

[raj]

REVIVAL of a two-years CONCEPT:

Details to follow:

[raj]

FIRST OF ALL, I would like to convey my heartiest THANKS to ALL those who have encouraged me with this concept previously.

Drawings showing overall COM for possible torque calculation for continuous rotation of wheels.

Drawing on the left shows drawing of my Hydro-gravity wheel above, at its initial start state:

1. Com of drum wheel(1) is on its axle
2. Combined COM of the weights/wheels(3 &5) is shown by purple colour dot/small circle.
3. Estimated COM of water in sealed Drum wheel(1) is showm by orange colour dot/small circle.
4. The overal COM of the Hydro-gravity wheel is shown by the black colour dot/small circle near the black arrows, which is EVIDENCE that the drum wheel MUST now rotate SOME degrees clockwise.

Drawing on the right shows my drawing above, after rotating SOME degrees:

1. The black dot/small circle and black arrows are now directly below the axle of drum wheel, which should indicate the drum wheel has reached a balance state.
2. Please note that:
(a) the estimated COM of water is now offset on the descending side.
(b) the combined COM of the two weights/wheels is offset on the ascending side and SHOULD NOW seek its lowest point inside drum wheel, forcing this COM to settle/roll back to its 6 o'clock position, thereby resetting Hydro-gravity wheel to its initial START state.

NB:
(i) Ratio of radii of drum wheel(1), weight/wheel(3) and weight/wheel(5) is 8:4:1 units.
(ii) density of water=1
(iii) density of weight/wheel(3)=2
(iv) density of weight/wheel(5) =8


Raj