Fletcher's Wheel - Ingenuity verses Entropy

[Fletcher]

Just dropped in for a second fellas.

Essentially your torque diagram is correct dax - & Chris is correct in that both turn the same direction.

To have potential you need to have or create a differential or gradient, in this case the variable distance separation between the horizontal beam & the rim stop per cycle - it is not an illusion, they both turn CW but relative to each other the horizontal beam is moving CCW.

Anyways dax - your torque diagram is pretty good - it is exactly what happens in a regular RBGS where we hung the bob on a rope then set it on the rim stop - the act of doing this did a couple of things - first we took mass off the rhs of the RBGS creating CCW torque - at the same time resting this same mass on the rim stop of the background wheel (to which the RBGS is attached) creates a CW torque - then it is just a leverage calculation - since the torque at the rim is at a longer arm then it wins & we have a net CW torque.

In my case I've replaced weight force with just simply force - I think it acts just the same.

It is important to understand the functioning of a RBGS & background wheel because tomorrow I want to talk about where I think a symmetry break is found & it involves the RBGS - there I will revisit Dwayne & my discussion earlier (which didn't continue on then) & hopefully quantify something about the RBGS, beyond being a torque equalization mechanism.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Fletcher,

I like to use the RBGs as torque balance with working loads (generators), wherein more energy is taken off than is required to rotate the system. If it takes 10Nm of force to lift a lever up in a direct lift, and by using a geared balance system (there are many ways to create a Gear Balance) a lever can be raised using less than 3 Nm, while still producing 10 Nm of torque on a load take off, then 7 Nm of surplus torque can be taken from the system due to the systems efficiency.

This has been my game plan for many years, the only obstetrical at the moment and the past 6 year is time and money, I always seem to be working away from home, still I get to see the world for free so its not all bad.

Edit, grammar.

[daxwc]

Fletcher:

Chris is correct in that both turn the same direction.

Yes, I understand both are designed by you to go the same direction. I just wish for everyone to take note that I might come back to this later.


Thought experiment RBGS:

Theory- We can produce energy coming from nowhere or more precisely energy from centripetal Force.

Concept- Imagine a canoe on water. You the person are the energy coming from nowhere and you put the paddle over one side of the canoe and paddle. Because you are paddling on one side the canoe travels in a circle. Every stroke propels the boat forward, but also pushes water backwards. Now change the scenario a little bit, there is an inner pool and an outer pool… the canoe travels on the ring pool and your paddle pushes in the inner pool. The inner pool water will now begin to rotate in the opposite direction of the canoe.

If energy can really be made from CF then in the scenario above, the faster you got the water rotate in the inner pool the more CF to energize the man in the canoe and the faster the canoe would go.


.

[daxwc]

Fletcher:

It is important to understand the functioning of a RBGS & background wheel because tomorrow I want to talk about where I think a symmetry break is found & it involves the RBGS.

What I can’t wrap my head around about the RBGS in your pictures is how the outer gear’s faces stay level throughout the rotation of the wheel? It needs to in your concept so you are not picking up or lowering mass of the slider weight and be in position for the CF movement sideways.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

All.

By taking the time to understand the RBGs I hope you guys will get a better understanding of what I am trying to achieve with my use of it, and the many variations of geared balance that can achieve the same out come.

In regards to the RBGs use to make out of balance wheels I do not see it, not forgetting the very little out of balance in the weight shift, and the fact that the RBGs still takes a certain amount of force (energy) to rotate the gear system even though the forces are in balance they still increase fiction on the gears.
Edit, this is a general RBGs comment for out of balance gravity wheel use.

[daxwc]

"We said that a balance on the Roberval principle could be made with gears. Here's an example. Five gears are on a rigid beam IH. The bar is free to rotate about the central axis located on the support pedestal. The gears rotate, except for the center one that is fastened to the pedestal and cannot move. Horizontal arms LI and KE remain horizontal at all times, for they are fastened to the gears at each end of the main beam IH. Therefore the equal mass round weights P and p can be placed anywhere on these arms and the system is still in balance. In fact, if the arm KE were made extremely long, both weights could be on the left side of the central axis. They could be directly above or below each other, or p could even be to the left of P. The system would still be in balance. "
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/roberval.htm

[daxwc]

What I can’t wrap my head around about the RBGS in your pictures is how the outer gear’s faces stay level throughout the rotation of the wheel?

Answer: “The gears rotate, except for the center one that is fastened to the pedestal and cannot move.�

Ok Fletcher, lets see if I can figure out how you replaced the pedestal and grounded the wheel again. Or maybe your main axle just doesn't turn?

[triplock]

Fletcher,

My simple fear is that when you have two diametrically opposite laterally sliding weights, the centripetal force will be equal and opposite. I just see awash tbh. Also, lets say you are dumping some of the CF to the outer rim via the flail, it is still acting on the sliding mass after the event. How do you envisage pulling that mass back in ?

Daxwc,

I know that Fletcher's inner and outer mechs rotate clockwise. This is out of necessity because the translated force will be zero if the RB is turning CCW.

Chris

[daxwc]

Triplock:

Also, lets say you are dumping some of the CF to the outer rim via the flail, it is still acting on the sliding mass after the event. How do you envisage pulling that mass back in ?

CF on the other side pulls it back in; the slider never moves from horizontal position, the gear face never changes from level.

[daxwc]

Triplock:

I know that Fletcher's inner and outer mechs rotate clockwise. This is out of necessity because the translated force will be zero if the RB is turning CCW.

I don't think so; the CF translate force is only happening through about 30 degrees on the righthand side anyway due to the RBGS, both can have action can have a reaction and re-reaction on both inner and outer. The faster you get the inner to rotate the more CF to move the outer. You should be able to gear the rack and pinion till they supply half the force both directions, or whatever you need to keep the inner moving and bleed energy gain off to the outer.

If you shot a gun you would have the bullet go and the recoil of the gun go the other direction.

[daxwc]

The concept is we are making energy out of nowhere. The energy is coming from unloading CF stress into lateral movement without mass drop to make the CF because the RBGS is always in balance until it swats the stop. From there you can part half the energy CCW to supply more CF and half the energy CW. Remember Supposedly we are making 4 times force of the weight minus friction and leverage losses.

[triplock]

Daxwc,
Just a slight correction to your comment 'The concept is we are making energy out of nowhere'. Clearly energy can neither be created nor destroyed. You are converting CF to angular momentum.

That aside, I'll sim a rotating RB to check something

Chris

[daxwc]

Triplock,

Clearly energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

Clearly???? Well Fletchers wheel is a motion only wheel that would be making energy not even off of gravity... it would strictly creating energy out of momentum. Even he will admit that.

[triplock]

Daxwc,

Stop being such an apostle and question all.

Anyway, via this link http://youtu.be/LIZuQ3D40Yw I show what I wanted to show. The elliptical rotation about the RB COR induces a variance in the CF. It is this free Lunch pumping that should be taken advantage of. From that, it is a short hop to configure a wheel that can be punched around. No need to thank me, as I know I'm great :-)

Cant believe I'm giving input with no financial gain. Must be going soft !

Chris

EDIT Video Uploading done

[daxwc]

Triplock:

Cant believe I'm giving input with no financial gain. Must be going soft !

Strange indeed since it was not your idea, which Fletcher had already shown a video of his own anyway. Last to the field, first to the table 8P.

LOL, I think you should go back and reread this thread and Fletcher's other thread and study it from front to back since you only seem to have caught on in the last page.