I balanced my medium density fiberboard "test bed" wheel sans weights, reinstalled everything, then tightened up things as best I could with what I have so far and get the following performance with eight evenly spaced, 5 lb. weights on the perimeter:
At the point of weight activation, there is 930grams now, (over 11 ounces) of axial force.
After hand releasing the weight and not touching anything until everything stops, the wheel has traveled 41 axial degrees.
When the wheel stops, all weights are back in position, and there is no return or backtracking. Everything is back in balance at this point.
My plan is to change the number of weight to either 12 or sixteen.
Just my humble opinion, but if Herr Bessler had been using WM2D to find the pathway, he would have never gotten out of the woods.
Those of you who have built or are building test wheels of some size are better off than those using WM2D by itself. Herr Bessler found the way by gradually finding out what wouldn't work.
Like I always say, I always find misplaced or lost things in the last place I look. Think about it.
Robert
It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than trying to solely profit
Moderator: scott
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Went ahead and just screwed 8 more weights to the wheel in the places they would be anyway....
From the point at which I hand activated the single weight, momentum carried everything through 3 follow-on release points, about 73 degrees this time, then gradually stopped. Everything in balance, no backtracking.
By the way, by 1719, Herr Bessler's mood was likely not one that would want to do any favors for knock-off artists. I think even from the beginning I would have installed some noise makers for the witnesses to hear. And the "spring" he pushed down. Well, that just adds several layers of complication to everything doesn't it? Do you really think he wrote Das Tri, and Apologetica to help anyone find the secret he'd worked so hard to uncover? Come on..........and the number of weight hits, even with 8, the strikes would have come too rapidly to count accurately.
Robert
From the point at which I hand activated the single weight, momentum carried everything through 3 follow-on release points, about 73 degrees this time, then gradually stopped. Everything in balance, no backtracking.
By the way, by 1719, Herr Bessler's mood was likely not one that would want to do any favors for knock-off artists. I think even from the beginning I would have installed some noise makers for the witnesses to hear. And the "spring" he pushed down. Well, that just adds several layers of complication to everything doesn't it? Do you really think he wrote Das Tri, and Apologetica to help anyone find the secret he'd worked so hard to uncover? Come on..........and the number of weight hits, even with 8, the strikes would have come too rapidly to count accurately.
Robert
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Hi Robert:
Glad to see you are still at it.
You have to understand something; WM2D is only a tool. Had JB being around in our time he most likely have used it, just like the rest of us.
Remember we are all here trying to discover a "principle" that makes the weights shift "automatically" out of balance in perpetuity, which by the way some of us believe have found it. Don't believe? Ask Ken or Jim_mich, in some of the other posts they have hinted they have it.
Last night I did a testing of this "principle" in WM2D and it behaved just like I thought it would and it made me understand why my wheel only turned 3 times before the straps jumped out of place.
I'm with you on JB doing all he could to keep this "principle" secret, yet I don't believe he was lying when he said that if you took 3 of his drawings with an inquiring mind you will see movement. That's how I believe I found it, yet the world requires proof. That's my dilemma because I realize now that I don't have the skills to do it nor the equipment.
I liked the suggestion that somebody on a different tread made, that we should form a group in unity to give it to the world, however we are very American, very individualistic and yes very greedy. That keeps us from sharing it with others for fear that others would leaves us hanging and penniless while others make fortunes.
I'll be happy to share this principle with anybody that is willing to make a group and sign a confidentiality and none disclosure agreement.
Are you up to it Robert?
Any takers?
Turulato
Glad to see you are still at it.
You have to understand something; WM2D is only a tool. Had JB being around in our time he most likely have used it, just like the rest of us.
Remember we are all here trying to discover a "principle" that makes the weights shift "automatically" out of balance in perpetuity, which by the way some of us believe have found it. Don't believe? Ask Ken or Jim_mich, in some of the other posts they have hinted they have it.
Last night I did a testing of this "principle" in WM2D and it behaved just like I thought it would and it made me understand why my wheel only turned 3 times before the straps jumped out of place.
I'm with you on JB doing all he could to keep this "principle" secret, yet I don't believe he was lying when he said that if you took 3 of his drawings with an inquiring mind you will see movement. That's how I believe I found it, yet the world requires proof. That's my dilemma because I realize now that I don't have the skills to do it nor the equipment.
I liked the suggestion that somebody on a different tread made, that we should form a group in unity to give it to the world, however we are very American, very individualistic and yes very greedy. That keeps us from sharing it with others for fear that others would leaves us hanging and penniless while others make fortunes.
I'll be happy to share this principle with anybody that is willing to make a group and sign a confidentiality and none disclosure agreement.
Are you up to it Robert?
Any takers?
Turulato
Inventors, Masters of Creative and independent thought
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Here is an online metronome http://www.metronomeonline.com
If you select 160 beats per minute you'll hear Bessler's largest wheel turning under load at 20RPM. Selecting 208 beats per minute will sound like the same wheel running unloaded at 26RPM.
This came from a previous post by ovyyus , You might find it of interest
Graham
I am a lover of Humanity, It's people I can't stand.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Hello Turulato, good to see you again.
I'm glad to hear you have found it.
Yes, from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs is a very captivating theory.
I need a need new refrigerator. Can I have yours if it's clean?
BTW, in a past life, were you a woodturner, or was your name Wagner?
Again, I'm happy you have found it.
Robert
I'm glad to hear you have found it.
Yes, from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs is a very captivating theory.
I need a need new refrigerator. Can I have yours if it's clean?
BTW, in a past life, were you a woodturner, or was your name Wagner?
Again, I'm happy you have found it.
Robert
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Have a catch, release design in mind to test after awhile. Also a simple way to advance or retard the weight's activation via gravity.
Hooked up your metronome and have it beating. Hearing the beats helps to think what requirements will be necessary. 160 is not too rapid at all.
Ordered some bronze sleeve bearings from Grainger.
Count Karl said that a '...carpenter's boy could make it." That happens to have been the occupation of my late father.
But, probably just speaking tooooooooooo sooooooon.......
It's getting scary.
Hooked up your metronome and have it beating. Hearing the beats helps to think what requirements will be necessary. 160 is not too rapid at all.
Ordered some bronze sleeve bearings from Grainger.
Count Karl said that a '...carpenter's boy could make it." That happens to have been the occupation of my late father.
But, probably just speaking tooooooooooo sooooooon.......
It's getting scary.
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Didn't Herr Bessler run his first wheel on 6th June 1712??????
If so, today is the 293 anniversary of the running of the first perpetual motion machine.
This evening, while working my weight mechanism over and over, a new and better way to move the weight dawned on me. I won't need so many bearings, and no touchy release mechanism. The weight still needs to be held in position, but the landing will be smoother and not so dependent on a precise spot.
Listening to the metronome and those 160 beats caused me to think that what I had might work, but it's an awful fast tempo for the weights to be jerked around.
I tried this new way on the wheel. It works. All the 15 other weights are brought along too. It's incredible.
Robert
If so, today is the 293 anniversary of the running of the first perpetual motion machine.
This evening, while working my weight mechanism over and over, a new and better way to move the weight dawned on me. I won't need so many bearings, and no touchy release mechanism. The weight still needs to be held in position, but the landing will be smoother and not so dependent on a precise spot.
Listening to the metronome and those 160 beats caused me to think that what I had might work, but it's an awful fast tempo for the weights to be jerked around.
I tried this new way on the wheel. It works. All the 15 other weights are brought along too. It's incredible.
Robert
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
>I tried this new way on the wheel. It works. All the 15 other weights are brought along too. It's incredible.<
Be careful what you say, it sounds to me like you are claiming to have a functioning PMM.
Be careful what you say, it sounds to me like you are claiming to have a functioning PMM.
Disclaimer: I reserve the right not to know what I'm talking about and not to mention this possibility in my posts. This disclaimer also applies to sentences I claim are quotes from anybody, including me.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
From what I read, he has it.
I have a design that I belive is
the same system Robert is using.
I have a design that I belive is
the same system Robert is using.
JB Wheeler
it exists I think I found it.
it exists I think I found it.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Hi Robert:
It is really great to see that someone actually is either very very close to achieving the "impossible" or allready has.
I went back to your first post and took a closer look at the drawing you posted. The principle I was talking about is almost all there, mainly a heavier weight close to the center of gravity driving lighter weights to the rim of the wheel. Bessler also shows this in some of his drawings, the question has being how it was actualy done I believe you found out how. Since you have discover this simple principle I hope more people follow suit and make all kinds of different designs and flood the patent office.
You have no idea how happy this makes me, it is great!
I knew it was very close, thank you Robert. I'll just wait for you to anounce that it is done, if you deside to tell us that is. However I'm pretty sure you either got it or are extremely close.
Like you said, to each according to his ability ;^)
Thanks again and God bless you.
Turulato
It is really great to see that someone actually is either very very close to achieving the "impossible" or allready has.
I went back to your first post and took a closer look at the drawing you posted. The principle I was talking about is almost all there, mainly a heavier weight close to the center of gravity driving lighter weights to the rim of the wheel. Bessler also shows this in some of his drawings, the question has being how it was actualy done I believe you found out how. Since you have discover this simple principle I hope more people follow suit and make all kinds of different designs and flood the patent office.
You have no idea how happy this makes me, it is great!
I knew it was very close, thank you Robert. I'll just wait for you to anounce that it is done, if you deside to tell us that is. However I'm pretty sure you either got it or are extremely close.
Like you said, to each according to his ability ;^)
Thanks again and God bless you.
Turulato
Inventors, Masters of Creative and independent thought
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Johnathan, thanks for your stern warning.
No, I don't have a working model yet, so some of you may want to breathe a sigh of relief...........
HOWEVER, the performance I'm getting from the improvement to my idea which you referenced is:
16 ea. 5 lb weights evenly spaced about the perimeter of a 46-9/16" wheel, when one is activated, will pull itself and the 15 other weights through 153 degrees. At the end of travel, as momentum disapates, the wheel slowly stops, and stays put. 5 ea. follow-on release points are traversed through.The influence that these would bring to bear on acceleration is not counted until I receive my bronze bearings and can put everything together and coordinate the party.
The release catch will be tricky, but the activated weight now moves with less shock at least.
Just for the record, the idea which dawned on me last night occured at 21:23 Hours, EST, USA, 6 June 2005.
This is no joke. If everything works out and the effort is successful, I've already said that John Collins will be the first person I inform of the success.
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
Johnathan, thanks for your stern warning.
No, I don't have a working model yet, so some of you may want to breathe a sigh of relief...........
HOWEVER, the performance I'm getting from the improvement to my idea which you referenced is:
16 ea. 5 lb weights evenly spaced about the perimeter of a 46-9/16" wheel, when one is activated, will pull itself and the 15 other weights through 153 degrees. At the end of travel, as momentum disapates, the wheel slowly stops, and stays put. 5 ea. follow-on release points are traversed through.The influence that these would bring to bear on acceleration is not counted until I receive my bronze bearings and can put everything together and coordinate the party.
The release catch will be tricky, but the activated weight now moves with less shock at least.
Just for the record, the idea which dawned on me last night occured at 21:23 Hours, EST, USA, 6 June 2005.
This is no joke. If everything works out and the effort is successful, I've already said that John Collins will be the first person I inform of the success.
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert
Ok so the race continues.
Ok so the race continues.
JB Wheeler
it exists I think I found it.
it exists I think I found it.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Turulato
I've already admitted defeat on that one, so don't you or any one else waste your time. The only active principle in that design is one of equilibrium.
Even now, let's see, I joined this forum on 8 May, so if my ideas pan out and the wheel works, that would mean that in less than one month, I have accomplished what the greatest minds on earth have said is impossible, and what lesser minds have spent 293 years batting around in basements and garages. IT'S GOT TO BE TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE.
Turulato. Is it too good to be true?
"Who can saywhere the road goes, where the day flows - only time
And who can say if your love grows as your heart chose - only time
Who can say why your heart sighs as your love flies - only time
And who can say why your heart cries, when your love lies - only time
Who can say when the roads meet that love might be in your heart
And who can say when the day sleeps if the night keeps all your heart
Night Keeps all your heart
Who can say if your love grows as your heart chose - only time
And who can say where the road goes where the day flows - only time
Who knows - only time
Who knows - only time"
From Enya, "A Day Without Rain"
I've already admitted defeat on that one, so don't you or any one else waste your time. The only active principle in that design is one of equilibrium.
Even now, let's see, I joined this forum on 8 May, so if my ideas pan out and the wheel works, that would mean that in less than one month, I have accomplished what the greatest minds on earth have said is impossible, and what lesser minds have spent 293 years batting around in basements and garages. IT'S GOT TO BE TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE.
Turulato. Is it too good to be true?
"Who can saywhere the road goes, where the day flows - only time
And who can say if your love grows as your heart chose - only time
Who can say why your heart sighs as your love flies - only time
And who can say why your heart cries, when your love lies - only time
Who can say when the roads meet that love might be in your heart
And who can say when the day sleeps if the night keeps all your heart
Night Keeps all your heart
Who can say if your love grows as your heart chose - only time
And who can say where the road goes where the day flows - only time
Who knows - only time
Who knows - only time"
From Enya, "A Day Without Rain"
Robert (The Carpenter's Boy)
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
There's never time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to do it over again.
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
Robert,
Hmmmm...
Have the eggs hatched? Are we counting the chickens already?
Are we a little high?
Endorphins are generally good for health but bear in mind that it is also a chemically induced "natural morphine".
Hmmmm...
Have the eggs hatched? Are we counting the chickens already?
Are we a little high?
Endorphins are generally good for health but bear in mind that it is also a chemically induced "natural morphine".
-
ken_behrendt
- Addict
- Posts: 3487
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:45 am
- Location: new jersey, usa
- Contact:
re: It Would Be More Noble To Clear J. Bessler's Name, than
From my years of involvement in the "quest" for PM, I have come to the conclusion that PM seekers have the same curse on them that King Tantalus had in Greek mythology.
As some may recall from their study of Greek mythology, King Tantalus was an evil king who, when he finally died and went to the Underworld, was given a rather cruel punishment. He was chained in the shallow part of a lake of cool pure water which just rose up to below his reach. As he got thirsty and wanted to drink some of the water, he would bend down for it, but it would immediately recede so that he could never get any. It did not matter how quickly he tried to get some water or how frequently...his punishment was to spend eternity with a chronic thirst that he was never allowed to quench.
In similar fashion, we PM seekers also have a chronic thirst...only ours is to finally be able to construct a self-moving piece of machinery which will amaze our fellow human beings, improve the world, and bring the praise of humanity to us.
Like King Tantalus, each of us has had to contend with the frustration of being ever so close to quenching our "thirst" for success...only to find that, yet again, that which would satisfy us quickly slipped away...
However, there is a small silver lining to this dark cloudy image. In Greek mythology, King Tantalus was finally rescued from his wretched state. I think there was another legend of how Hercules, in order to restore the dead wife of one of his friends, was required to perform 12 impossible tasks in the Underworld...one of which was to finally free King Tantalus so he could quench his insatiable thirst. Hercules WAS successful and King Tantalus then enjoyed a far better afterlife.
Someday, hopefully soon, another Hercules type will arrive on the scene in the free energy field. Finally, he (or she!) will free us all from the curse of King Tantalus!
Who knows which of us might be that modern era Hercules...
ken
As some may recall from their study of Greek mythology, King Tantalus was an evil king who, when he finally died and went to the Underworld, was given a rather cruel punishment. He was chained in the shallow part of a lake of cool pure water which just rose up to below his reach. As he got thirsty and wanted to drink some of the water, he would bend down for it, but it would immediately recede so that he could never get any. It did not matter how quickly he tried to get some water or how frequently...his punishment was to spend eternity with a chronic thirst that he was never allowed to quench.
In similar fashion, we PM seekers also have a chronic thirst...only ours is to finally be able to construct a self-moving piece of machinery which will amaze our fellow human beings, improve the world, and bring the praise of humanity to us.
Like King Tantalus, each of us has had to contend with the frustration of being ever so close to quenching our "thirst" for success...only to find that, yet again, that which would satisfy us quickly slipped away...
However, there is a small silver lining to this dark cloudy image. In Greek mythology, King Tantalus was finally rescued from his wretched state. I think there was another legend of how Hercules, in order to restore the dead wife of one of his friends, was required to perform 12 impossible tasks in the Underworld...one of which was to finally free King Tantalus so he could quench his insatiable thirst. Hercules WAS successful and King Tantalus then enjoyed a far better afterlife.
Someday, hopefully soon, another Hercules type will arrive on the scene in the free energy field. Finally, he (or she!) will free us all from the curse of King Tantalus!
Who knows which of us might be that modern era Hercules...
ken
On 7/6/06, I found, in any overbalanced gravity wheel with rotation rate, ω, axle to CG distance d, and CG dip angle φ, the average vertical velocity of its drive weights is downward and given by:
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ
Vaver = -2(√2)πdωcosφ