this one's for ovyyus

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Vic Hays
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Re: re: this one's for ovyyus

Post by Vic Hays »

rlortie wrote:

First, in Genesis it states that God created the earth in 7days, but yet he did not create day and night first. So what is seven days based on and how long was a day in Gods eye. Was it millions of our years allowing for his creation to be accomplished in an evolutionary time cycle.

Second, Also in Genesis we read that Adam and Eve bore Cain, the eldest and first son and then Able. Cain slays his brother Able and goes into the land of Nod where he meets his wife. Who was his wife and where did her conceivement begin and by who? Was she his sister, making us all bastards and inbreds.
If you can answer these two questions in such matter that a layman as myself can understand, then and only then would I care to respond to any more of your posts.

Ralph


Since John gave you his answers, I can give you answers from the Bible.

1. God did create day and night the first day.

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Personally I understand creation week to be the creation of life on the earth. It appears that the earth itself was created before creation week as "the earth was without form and void". It also appears that the creation account may have been from the point of view of an observer on the surface of the earth.

2. Even up to the time of Abraham it was ok to marry near relatives. Abraham married his half sister.

Genesis 20:11-12 And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake. And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
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re: this one's for ovyyus

Post by ovyyus »

my real name is john. vyrne@hotmail.com ...
So, I ask you to provide evidence of your true identity and you side-step the question by dropping an anonymous hotmail address?

You obviously do not want me or anyone else to know who you really are - why the deception? You sound genuine, yet your actions are deceptive - why is that?

Your brand new username pops up out of nowhere trying to prove your religious expertise in some 51% lawyer approach sales-pitch while you hide behind a fabricated identity. You must think I'm stupid mate. You must think we're all stupid.

Have a chat with Mitch Robinson - lol - what's that saying, "iron sharpens iron". lmao
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re: this one's for ovyyus

Post by johnl285 »

you asked for my real name, my real first name is john. i'm a man. i live in america. you asked for contact information, i gave an email.

i have a "fabricated identity" johnl285, what's wrong with that? you have a fabricated identity too called ovyyus. i "hide behind"? what are you hiding behind yourself? you think i think you're stupid? how ridiculous was your post?

i'm here to go line by line with you on christianity if you're interested. if you're not then bye.
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re: this one's for ovyyus

Post by ovyyus »

Everyone knows my name and my identity, and my contact details are there for all to see and can be verified by my peers - I have nothing to hide.

You, on the other hand, have no peers and hide behind your fabricated identity because you have something to... hide. Why is that? What is that? A self-professed knowledgable man of god such as yourself shouldn't have to cower in the shadows like a rat... unless there's something wrong with you or you don't want me to know who you really are. Hmmm, who could you be?

Anyone can hide behind any name they want and create any hotmail address that pleases them, just as you have done, just as trolls always do. You want to go line by line with me on your personal views of Christianity but you want to do it like a rat skulking in the shadows? Suddenly you're not so interested in this little line-by-line exercise when you have to step up and be recognized. You said you'd go through "hardship" to help - is this too hard?
Last edited by ovyyus on Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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re: this one's for ovyyus

Post by rlortie »

johnl285,

I have scrutinized your answers to my leading questions. I feel as though I have a received a conceptualized answer only leading to more questions.

If I were to have a religious debate I believe I would enjoy it better with Vic.

I hope that you and ovyyus have fun, as I am out of here. Thanks to Vic,
I see the light and this topic is no where for me to be wasting my time.

Ralph
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Re: re: this one's for ovyyus

Post by primemignonite »

jim_mich wrote:James,

There is a very big difference between having a religious faith and being religiously obnoxious by trying to push ones religious ideas into other peoples face.

It's like you own a car that you're perfectly happy with and a car salesman intrudes into your home saying your car is no good and you must buy his brand. You tell him to take a hike.

I'm not here at the Bessler forum to listen to other people about religion!

A discussion about some aspect of Bessler's religious beliefs might be appropriate. Discussions about his wheels and perpetual motion wheel ideas are most appropriate.

Most members understand this. Those that keep pushing religion into our faces will get bad reputations.

Just my opinion.

Image
Dear Jim Mich,

Thank you for your considered thoughts and words. Frankly, I find myself in agreement with it all.

Expanding on this thought line, if I may, I think that the nub of the problem with over zealous proselytizing and evangelizing, is when it begins to impinge on the exercise of 'free-will' by others, but of course, in order to introduce such new subjects into on-going discussions, it is sometimes necessary to make a ripple or two. The line between 'just right' and 'over done', or worse, is for some very fine and for others quite broad. I am of the latter class with very many others being of the first, as I've observed over time. Personally, I prefer to cut them all a lot of slack (in the end games, at least), say 'thank you', and move on - sort of free-will Aikido maybe? Sometimes, as is the case with Techstuf, there is much of positive use and benefit to be had, which is exactly as he intends it to be, or so I believe.

Getting a bit on-topic now, I think we all know that Herr Bessler was a VERY complicated person, i.e. multi-dimensional - all of his mere parts summing up to a much greater whole - we know for a fact that he was a Protestant Christian as was his high patron; his father was a speculative Mason and chances are more than good that he was as well; his drawings veritably BRISTLE with Masonic Mythos, and also reveal an astounding numerological complexity. It is positively uncanny, what is there, if anyone might care to investigate.

For the many who are seeking after his so-efficiently-hidden-secret, such aspects of the total reality should not be ignored. Those who do choose to disregarded such intensely relevant dimensions - possibly out of mere comfort to their own prejudices - sadly enfeeble their otherwise admirable efforts.

Just my opinion too.

a/b/r, James
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re: this one's for ovyyus

Post by Techstuf »

James stated:
For the many who are seeking after his so-efficiently-hidden-secret, such aspects of the total reality should not be ignored. Those who do choose to disregarded such intensely relevant dimensions - possibly out of mere comfort to their own prejudices - sadly enfeeble their otherwise admirable efforts.

Just my opinion too.



He's right you know. Take heed, gentlemen. This ain't the SAT's.....It's an altogether different kind of.....entrance exam.


No honorary PHD's bestowed.


James.....that was an interestingly diplomatic way of intoning:


Some truths are better left unshared......as the many will simply 'wipe their butts with it'....and then seek to kick yours.
As most of humanity suffers under tyrants, misled by the devil and his cohorts who've recently been thrown down here, nothing short of Yahshua, King of Kings, will remove these oppressors and bring everlasting peace.
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re: this one's for ovyyus

Post by ovyyus »

... and some 'truths' are nothing but the superstitious imaginings of those who hide in shadows like lonely scared rats. You're not like that though are you Mitch? ;)
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re: this one's for ovyyus

Post by primemignonite »

Dear Techstuf,

Your compliment given me is most gratefully received.

Actually, I like your version better, it's being more direct and to-the-point as well as colorful. I shall file it away for future use, if I may?

[This more diplomatic approach is a new thing for me, the other one having only gotten me well into the RED. For today, at least, I'm out of it and back up to "No Reputation". There may well be a slightly hysterical aspect to the giving and rescinding of good and bad Reputation. I do know that the system IS COMPLICATED. The "FAQ" section has a new, highly detailed explanation of it's workings, some of which continue to defy my analysis.]

Peace, and

a/b/r, James
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re: this one's for ovyyus

Post by Techstuf »

... and some 'truths' are nothing but the superstitious imaginings of those who hide in shadows like lonely scared rats.
Your observations run parallel to my own on several points.....and are too generous and kind.

Your calculated statements give me pause for some much needed, though highly subjective introspection.


Peace,

TS
As most of humanity suffers under tyrants, misled by the devil and his cohorts who've recently been thrown down here, nothing short of Yahshua, King of Kings, will remove these oppressors and bring everlasting peace.
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re: this one's for ovyyus

Post by Techstuf »

File it you may, James! And btw....it was only partly mine.....I nabbed the first portion of it from your given twin.

Peace,


TS
As most of humanity suffers under tyrants, misled by the devil and his cohorts who've recently been thrown down here, nothing short of Yahshua, King of Kings, will remove these oppressors and bring everlasting peace.
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re: this one's for ovyyus

Post by ovyyus »

You're welcome Mitch, however, highly subjective introspection sounds like more tight little circles to me. Perhaps a re-boot would prove more therapeutic in the long run?

What about talking it through line by line with your mate 'johnl285'? Just remember not to put the old boy under too much hardship though - he seems a little delicate on certain points.
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re: this one's for ovyyus

Post by Techstuf »

Praytell, Bill......your obvious soft spot for we 'superstitious' lot begs further inquiry.

Please expound upon your advocation and definition of a 'therapeutic re-boot'!

And pardon my ignorance, but by what agency are you shown promise of a 'long run' at all? By comparison, What has been shown me indicates a very, very short run ahead for mortal mankind, by cosmological standards at the least.

And btw.....I found your 'tight little circles' euphemism, ironically entertaining.....and highly analogous to various 'ineffable' truths which are written in stone (to include hardened hearts as well).


The 'laser like' focus of your singular intellect upon the perceived motivations of others comes at appreciable expense.....not the least of which is a sizeable window into your own.......one through which much is shown.


And regarding your comments on Johnl285, as I don't know the man, I will not be quick to judge him.....although I will share my observation that, generally speaking:


He who wears his heart on his sleeve for all to judge and to perceive,

is stronger for it than he who's own is locked away in the vault,

unknown.....

lest him it might deceive.



We all have 'delicate' points....do we not?


The world is a neighborhood of glass houses.....and even those who can afford the 'tempered' variety sit in fear during the Hailstorm.

And spiteful and bitter is the man who, after seeing the cracks develop in his own, scoop up the hailstones and begin throwing them at his blessed neighbor's house.....seeking to impose an 'equal sharing of misery'.


Take heart Ovyyus, patience worketh perfectness.....of course, conversely, impatience begets more imperfection. (experience talking)


Oh how much EASIER it is to tolerate the 'superstitions' of a sleeping man!


Peace,


TS
As most of humanity suffers under tyrants, misled by the devil and his cohorts who've recently been thrown down here, nothing short of Yahshua, King of Kings, will remove these oppressors and bring everlasting peace.
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re: this one's for ovyyus

Post by ovyyus »

What sleeve? What heart? The 'johnl285' identity is a troll. Shine a light in that direction and it scampers back into the shadows - "lest him it might deceive" - you seem a little protective there Mitch. Is that because you see a corner of your own reflection? Vanity Fair.

I'll leave all your other questions as something to research for yourself in your own time. BTW, it's no effort for me at all to brush away a few flies now and then - the 'Aussie Salute' :)
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re: this one's for ovyyus

Post by Techstuf »

You lost me.....with the 'brain re-boot' thing....and now this Johnl285 troll thing....and brushing flies?

I was talking about someone who lets others know what they are about....sharing their heart. Yours seems a bit worse for wear/disuse? All logic and no heart can tear a man, a world, apart.

Just an observation....but you seem a bit 'vested' to say the least, in the Bessler conundrum....

Such that you seem quite easily irritated that others have something to share other than fits your prejudicial preconceptions. Judging by your actions and not those of any group with which you may or may not share affiliation, actual or perceived......(no blanket judgements here or LCD clustering)

I get the distinct impression that for you, the Bessler intrigue is wall there is, left.


You own it well.


I'll leave all your other questions as something to research for yourself in your own time. BTW, it's no effort for me at all to brush away a few flies now and then - the 'Aussie Salute' :)

Yes, that was quite selfish of me to ask, I defer to your altruism. My apologies, yet another character flaw to go with my 'vanity'....?


I will go and polish the corners of my mirror, as I'm sure you will go and polish that shiny safe of yours, lest it begin to rust.



Peace,


TS
As most of humanity suffers under tyrants, misled by the devil and his cohorts who've recently been thrown down here, nothing short of Yahshua, King of Kings, will remove these oppressors and bring everlasting peace.
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