Protoclocks, escapements and closing the loop in PM

[AB Hammer]

Frank

CC is working from a clockwork point of view, which could have been one of the directions Bessler worked from. He was well known for pipe organ work and clock work.

Alan

[Grimer]

CCFrank

CC is working from a clockwork point of view, which could have been one of the directions Bessler worked from. He was well known for pipe organ work and clock work.

Alan

Quite so - and I have seen how I might be able to apply escapement type thinking to an element of the Bessler Wheel, viz. the Milkovic pendulum.

As for the heat engine stuff, I am using that as an analogy in order to see how to reverse the energy flow from the clock direction,
spring (EG) -> pendulum (NG) (hot source to environment)
to the inverse clock direction
pendulum -> spring (environment to cold source)

[cloud camper]

Yup - an escapement could have easily been part of the wheel.

I don't make any claim to the wheel but it can be made very thin of course with a more common flat spring.

The only thing remotely difficult with an escapement build is determining exact locations for the activating pins and striker bars on the impulse roller (driven wheel). I did it with just trial and error for the sims but there's probably a better way.

I will take those right off the simulation as a start point but may have to be tweaked for the physical PoP.

On a different note, I told Ralph I would post pics of a Geneva Drive mechanism. These are amazingly efficient and precise with very low friction. Of course my machinist did the fab. Every dimension is very critical.

The idea of the Geneva drive is that at every 180 degrees rotation around the stationary center wheel the satellites turn 90 degrees and then are locked in place for another 90 degrees. A great way to move weights around. And because of the gradual ramp entry, there is no jerking as the movement slowly ramps up when the pins engage and slowly ramp down again at the pin exit.

But the sprockets can be changed to get more or less than 90 degrees final output. Extremely versatile mechanism but won't work with oscillators.

These are used on another project I am working on.

[cloud camper]

While JM pleads for respect, the trolls are busy building PM machines.

Clock spring bearing plate and axle fabbed and installed.
One way bearing only allows CW rotation of escape wheel.

Clock spring installed.

Escape wheel installed.

Impulse roller wheel next to install.

No major screw ups yet!

It's just a big 'effin clock!

[ovyyus]

Nice build. Nicer if it works.

[cloud camper]

Fer shur dude!

[jim_mich]

Looks like a lot of foolish work.

Wer dieses aus kann spekuliren,
Wird bald den Lauf perpetuiren;
Wer aber dieses noch nicht weiß,
Da ist vergebens aller Fleiß;
Man tue, denke, sinne, dichte
Gleich schon auf noch so viel Gewichte;
Sein Ding davon vielmehr wird schwer,
Und lief’ viel länger, da es leer;
Ja, es geh’t solchen seinem Dinge,
Als ob gleich noch so viel’ Sperlinge
Sich greulich bissen um und um
Auf einem stillen Mühlrad rum;
Wie ich unlängst nur wahr genommen,
Als ich zu solchem Streit gekommen. x

Anybody this from can speculate, would soon the running perpetuate. Anybody however this still not know, then is in vain all hard_work. You do, suppose, mean, write same already towards yet so many weights. His thing thereof rather is heavy, and run much longer, were it empty. Yes, it goes such his things, as if equal to so much sparrows themselves dreadfully bite round and round on a still mill-wheel run. As I recently truthfully observed, when I to such quarrel come.

If he can sort that out, the motion will perpetuate itself. But if he can't, then his hard work shall be all in vain. He can rack his brains and work his fingers to the bones with all sorts of ingenious ideas about adding extra weights here and there. The only result will be that his wheel will get heavier and heavier - it would run longer if it were empty! Have you ever seen a crowd of starlings squabbling angrily over the crumbs on a stationary mill-wheel? That's what it would be like for such a fellow and his invention, as I know only too well from my own recent experience!

[cloud camper]

Thanks for the advice but this is not your grandfather's gravity wheel.

[Grimer]

Those pictures remind me of the time I had government workshops to build my ideas. No expense spared.

# Those were the days my friend,
.. I thought they'd never end, #
...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEG3iv0YKsw

[eccentrically1]

Thanks for the advice but this is not your grandfather's gravity wheel.

Then it must be a grandfather clock?

Have to figure where the clock hands will go!

Leave the hands off, and just put numbers on it. That way it will always be right. ;|

Good luck on the big day.

[AB Hammer]

Those pictures remind me of the time I had government workshops to build my ideas. No expense spared.

# Those were the days my friend,
.. I thought they'd never end, #
...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEG3iv0YKsw

One of my all time favorite songs. Here is another one of my all time favorites from that time period, that still kind of fits our quest. Judy Collins, "Both side now"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Xm30heHms

[cloud camper]

Meanwhile back in the troll workshop:

Escape pins and impulse pallets installed on impulse roller wheel. Escape pins are 3/16 bolts with rollers, impulse pallets are 1/4 dowel pins.

A 90 degree spread is desired so that the clock spring unwinds at the same rate it is being wound.

Still looking very clockish as 10 lb weights are added to the test pendulum. The pendulum is strictly temporary and is used only for debug.

Once the escapement is dialed in the symmetric pendulum will be replaced with an asymmetric oscillator.

We must apologize to poor JM here as this concept must be entirely confusing for him.

In the future, we will stick to far simpler subjects that JM is much more comfortable with, such as basic gravity wheels and Jew hatred!

[AB Hammer]

CC

Very good looking build

[cloud camper]

The trolls took off a few days to go trail biking but still managed to get the
detent arm constructed.

Very simple build so far as I am basically just copying the simulation and
don't have to think too hard.

Detent arm just a 3/4" square tube aluminum with the one way panel made of 1/4" polycarb. Escape arm just a section of bent 3/8" allthread.
Easy stuff. Just about every parameter fully adjustable.

With just a few short manual run thrus, this thing makes a hellatious racket! Maybe add some rubber pads to quiet the noise.

Of course this concept will never be as good as a true "motion" wheel design as it uses lowly gravity for part of it's operation but this is the best we trolls can do!

[Andyb]

Cloud,nice work ,i as well can not see them working, but hey it's more important to eliminate what does not work and why ,then we will find the solution, keep building dude they look brilliantly made full of love and passion,good to see, thanks for sharing.