Another look at Storks Bills.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi all,

I have started this new thread so not to distract from Oystein's good work and thread,
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... &start=225

I have cut and pasted my post here for more discussion and to post drawings and up dates.

Hi Art, All,

I have been given storks bills some more thought this afternoon, and have scribbled some drawings on a back of a old envelope "well I could not find a cigarette packet" I will draw the best options to scale and post them when I get some more time

My last build with storks bills I put rollers on the center pivots to run in slots, I still have one of them, but rebuilt the other one back into a riveter.

This is the drawing description (anticlockwise rotation),

I have 4 sets of pivoting cross bars X (any number) the cross bars center pivot is pivoting on the wheel, one at the top, one at the bottom, one on the left and one on the right, there are two weights on each cross bar, look at the left side the weights would be on the top of the X and the X would be closed, looking at the right side the weights would be at the bottom and the X would be open, attached to the X cross bars would be a pivoting V frame facing out, at the end of which would be a weight, on the left side the weights are moved outward on a slider, on the right side they are moved inward, looking at the left side X cross bar the top left weight hits a stop on the wheel to help weight the wheel outward as well as the driven outward V frame weight when the X cross bar is closed, Looking at the right hand side Open X there would be a stop on the wheel to stop the inward weight of the X pivoting cross Bars.

Here is the thinking, the weights on the the pivoting cross bars should be in a balance until they hit there stops, where they switch to a unbalance and at the same time the pivoting Vs weights will be moved in and out.

To advance the timing and early falling, looking a the left side the X & V pivoting bars and the V weight sliders Horizontal maybe made Higher than the axle and the rest would be made to be the same when in that position

Edit, with eight sets it could even sound like Bessler's wheel, "well you have to find something to tie it in with Bessler's Wheel" lol.

This is got to be worth a build, as if I did not have enough outstanding builds already.

Edit, I have decided to build just one set and a counter weight on the opposite side of the wheel, this should let me know if there is anything there and save time. Also I will try the multi storks bills and slider I have already and weight all the pivoting cross bars on the top arms in the same way as above left hand layout, this will be with a counter weight also, If they have any merit then I will go for a full 8 set build, I will let you know what happens.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi,

Also I will try the multi storks bills and slider I have already and weight all the pivoting cross bars on the top arms in the same way as above left hand layout, this will be with a counter weight also, If they have any merit then I will go for a full 8 set build, I will let you know what happens.

I dug out the multiple storks bills and slider, I did not need to put it on the wheel because it was clear it would not work just by putting pressure on the pivot points where the weights would have been, it took a lot of force and would have been a lot of weight drop for little advantage.

When I applied force on the first pivoting cross bars it liked it, and move quite easily, so a single X pivoting cross bar should still be OK.

I am hoping to build a one set and counterbalance weight tomorrow, I have this week off and if I hurry I maybe able to get 4 experiments complete, that will be 4 less to worry about and clear some space in my mind.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi,

Here is a couple of drawings, wherein, A = the wheel axle, W = weights in blue, X = pivoting stocks Bills driver in black, V = pivoting out of balance weight driver in black, S = slotted weight guide, and TS = travel stops in red, MSB = Multi Storks Bills out of balance weight driver.

Figure 1 shows the application of sets of single X and V pivoting bars, wherein there would be two sets of X and Vs on the back side of the wheel at 3 and 9 O'clock. Figure 1 also shows it maybe better used as a MT 25 type of device.

Figure 2 shows the large X's driving multi storks bills, this would be preferred because of the greater distance traveled inward and outward by the out of balance weights.

Both drawings are to show the main components, the exact positions, numbers, sizes would be the subject of hands on R&D. There is a mechanism I will be adding but that is one of the experiment I have planed for this week, and is not restricted for the use of this design and I will show it later on.

What I am trying to do is to get the X drivers to balance there weights on there pivots, and when they reach the end of there travel to switch from balance to a positive pull on the red ropes, however I have tried this trick in the past with weighted levers and it did not work, but with this design the forces are different so it may just help.

I have built a pair of horizontal stork bills before and found them slow to react, so this time I am driving them with weights with a direct fall down this should drive them early.

I most add that I am not that optimistic but I have all the flat bar cut now so I will have to build it.

[AB Hammer]

Trevor L W

Things to watch out for are 2 point attachment effects with your weight. At your X to your cable makes such an effect. I will be watching you of course and hope soon to get some time to finish some of my scissor jack systems.

[TheAntLeo]

This taught me a lesson yet. I know what I should do or should not do.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi All,

I have got a week off, so I hope to finish my started build of the above figure 2, I will let you all know what happen and will post a video.

The main advantage of this design is how much weight the closed scissor jack can transfer to the pull down on the descending side via the cord, that is if wheel has enough inertia to take the bottom scissors to its reset.

The wheel will have a ratchet connected so if the wheel does make the reset the wheel cannot roll back, this will give the scissors time to move because they are sometimes slow to react, as I found out on my last scissor build, we will have to wait and see.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi,

I did not get much done on my last week off work (May 24th 2015) but now I have some time off again, so I have two Jobs I would like to do, 1. finish off my build of figure 2 here, and 2. build and video a scaled model of the Multi Lever Phenomenon (MLP) AGAIN, this time edit the video properly and this time post the video and not keep it to myself.

I now need it for a project so it is time to prove it, the last MLP video I made was transverse lever set ups, that showed me I was right, the next model will be the lever weights coming to rest and hanging off the pivots to improve the levers weights balance on the wheel.

If I have any more time left I will show more of the stuff I am doing in the fraud section, that will shut up my skeptics, although the video of the MLP should do that, well at least the more educated skeptic.

Edit, Wow! I wish you boys on community Buzz could keep the noise down, some of us still have some work to do.

[AB Hammer]

Trevor Lyn Whatford

A lot depends on operations coming up. My Dad is open heart and I have what ever the VA wants to do first. I hope the latter part of Aug. then I will have some time to redo at least one of my wheels that accelerated till the timing became a problem.


Alan

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Alan,

I hope everything works out well for you and your dad, I lost my dad in the early part of 2013, that was the main reason I move one of my threads to fraud because I did not have the emotional strength to fight my case, well that and I made a maths error.

I try not to put time limits on my builds, and just do what I can when I can, and do not worry if I cannot, I keep going windsurfing if its windy on my time off and the last time I was off it was windy so I was distracted.

Anyway, all the best Alan, and do what you can when you can, but do not forget to have some fun when you can.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi All,

I have still not had time to get this finished, its not been a good year for me in the build department, I have got nothing done, and only added to my too build list.

Its been a good year for work though, and windsurfing.

[AB Hammer]

Hi Trevor L W

All worked out on the operations and I am getting a little work done. I plan on getting a wheel or 2 done the first part of Nov.


Alan

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi all,

I have still not finished the above build, but have come to realize it is over complicated. By using the same rope system principle on the lever systems of many of my designs, I can weight some of the ascending weights of the levers to the descending side of the wheel, and also so weight the outer levers inward on the ascending side, and the outward on the descending side, all this can be done with very little lever movement, which means very little drop in lever weight height.

(Edit 1, also with using slots for the weights at the end of the levers, I can decouple the weight from the lever pivot points, so the weights are not shared between pivot points only the lever arm is.) (Edit 2, the weights ropes can be connected to the wheel or to opposite lever arms to weight the descending levers even more, R&D will find the best options.)

The first lever system I will be building is the lever system shown on the Multi Lever Phenomenon, shown on my web site. I was going to remodel it anyway to prove the MLP works so it will be two birds with one stone and save me time.


I was going to post it all together when I had finished the build, but that may have been too late, I just do not get the time I need to move things forward, I have only half built the scissor jacks build above this year, wherein most years I get at least 3 builds done. The trouble is I keep adding to that list and I am not getting anything ticked off it.

[Tarsier79]

Trevor it is pretty easy to see what will happen with your scissor design. Take your drawings, and turn them 90 degrees...

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi T79,

I always do that, and I am aware of the problems, which is one reason why I used a heavy wheel to give it the flywheel effect, not that it will help my build because I have only put on one pair of jacks, and this design would have needed at least two pair to carry it over, but I lost interest when I had better Ideas and more important builds I want to try.

To be honest I do not have much confidences in this build, and that maybe why I cannot fined the motivation to get it finished. I am building it to prove it does not work, which is not a good place to fined motivation. However I will be interested to fined out how much the ropes transfer the weight to the descending side and I should be able to measure that by the degrees in the shift of the center of gravity.

Edit, there was more going on in this design than meets the eye, and there should have been two pairs of jacks, one pair on each side of the wheel front and back. I am not a big fan of scissor jacks though, I most confess.

[ME]

As I see it, a horizontal shifting of weights will not do the job.
See this.