Has An Important Property Of Fluids Been Overlooked ?

[daxwc]

So where is the energy gain going to come from Ralph?

[ME]

But Ralph... how big is it really?

Current build is 72" (11.99 m) in diameter, one half the size of Bessler's 12 foot wheels.

I guess you mean 7.2 Feet / 86.4 inch / 2.19 meter in diameter?
(or 72 inch, 1.83 meter)

Still huge, but slightly less.

[rlortie]

Marchello,

It is 72.25 inches in diameter (1.83515 m), Sorry for the confusion. I must have had a typo error in my desktop converter. Where as it is still under construction I am not ready to quote its thickness nor the overall length of the axle and stanchion upon which will support it. I can say that the rotating portion is 15.25" (38.6842 cm) in width or thickness.

The front of the drum is supported by a 8.5" (21.2 cm) long shaft 0.75" (1.905 cm) diameter riding in a pillow block bearing. this gives me the extension for installing output "V" belt pulleys or chain sprockets.

@ daxwc,

You ask where is the energy going to come from? The device is mainly an OB gravity wheel, but motion is also utilized by the turbine impeller blades keeping the fluid turning with the drum. Thus adding flywheel rotational kinetic energy, this also keeps the fluid via Cf symmetrical with the outer circumference of the drum. Empty the machine is balanced, once fluid is introduced my math calculations show a COM starting to build torque when slightly over 1/4 capacity.

helloha assisted with the following videos that did not include the turbine impeller blades.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQFRkeJHprQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boxUMRM9s10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rFYjM1E6U8

One side is full, the other empty as Bessler said it should be! The action breaks down the drum into four sections rather than three as per the AP depiction. These four sections are asymmetrical with one part full on the descent, part empty on the ascent, while the remaining two parts are in a state of transition. Torque values will be recorded using a Prony brake and certified commercial scales.

Ralph

[ME]

Neat !!! Please make the next one transparent!!

I don't understand half of the mentioned components involved, so perhaps a stupid question: why should this work; or what makes it different from (let's say) a washing machine?

Marchello E.

[Mark]

At 1/4 fill ? Holy cow! No wonder you mentioned tipping.

You know those crane-on-a-truck monster vehicles, that have the I-beams that extend out with the adjustable feet on the end?
Might be worth considering a temporary outrigger, just for laughs.

How's this for a name..... Steamroller Wheel

:D

But seriously, Ralph. From the little that you've revealed, I'm quite impressed. Sounds to me like you might very well be onto something there. Hope it turns for you.

Mark

[rlortie]

Marchello,

Funny you should mention "washing machine"... It was not long after I came up with the idea that I purchased a new upgrade washing machine that does not have the usual center located agitator. It washes by simply reciprocating the entire drum! Watching this through the glass top lid lead me to more inspiration and improvements on my skunk build.

The machine can handle heavier and more bulky material such as comforters and heavy queen size bedding that we use to have to take to a commercial washing facility, the old agitator machine could not handle it.

@ Mark The wheel is six feet in diameter and the roll away platform it will be bolted to is four feet wide. And yes the major mass making for maximum Pe will overhang by one foot. The accumulator only needs to be filled to 75% capacity to achieve this with the machine in static or motionless mode.

The thought of 'Outriggers' has crossed my mind, but for convenience and aesthetics I hope they will not be required.

I am not following Jim_Mich's plan here by disclosing what I am pursuing, but please understand that there are and will be some intricacies that I cannot divulge until machine is verified as a runner and "patent applied for" status is reached.

I find that molecular mass has attributes that one will never find pursing the path of Bessler. Those wishing to duplicate his machines will find no answers here! A friend of Ed's, a man who is owed appreciation by us all including John Collins put me wise to William Kenrick, and his writings on perpetual motion as viewed from molecular motion.

Ralph

[ovyyus]

I am not following Jim_Mich's plan here...

If you mean his 'The Plan', then probably a good thing Ralph. That plan was abandoned when he changed the definition of step 1, "First get something that works!!!". As always, good luck with your built.

[ME]

I find that molecular mass has attributes that one will never find pursing the path of Bessler.

You're not telling, so here's my random thought: Fluid-Friction leads to Fluid-Pressure leads to Fluid-Motion (but useful?); more difficult when using larger stuff.

"The plan" is a non-issue, because it starts after one has achieved perpetual motion... One needs a plan to get up to that point, After a first build, refinement and a pause is advisable; this pause can be used to write things up and think about consequences (which one consciously or unconsciously collected anyway while conceiving that thing).

Marchello E.

[jim_mich]

If you mean his 'The Plan', then probably a good thing Ralph. That plan was abandoned when he changed the definition of step 1, "First get something that works!!!".

'My Plan' was NEVER abandoned. And it was never changed. You simply attempted to twist it into something that it never was. When you state that I've abandoned my plan, then you are a liar.

Item 'A' of my list was and still is: "First get something that works!!"

The 'something' in that sentence means: some method, some process, some mechanism, something.

The 'works' in that sentence means such a something should: produce perpetual motion, cause a wheel to keep moving, solve Bessler's secret.

A "working wheel" is not the same thing as "something that works".
You. Bill, have confused the finding of "something that works" with a "working wheel".

There is NOTHING in that first step 'A' that requires that the wheel be already built and proven. That comes in later steps.

There is nothing in the plan that requires things be taken step by step. The plan was never numbered as 1,2,3,etc. It was as A,B,C,etc simply for convenience in discussions.

So please Bill, stop posting lies about me.

[rlortie]

Marchello,

Yes there are some things I am sworn to secrecy as there is a co-inventor involved that enticed me into conceiving the design. After pursuing various forms of over-untiy since the age of 18 (1958) I feel I should be not only recognized but financially awarded if I develop something that is cost effective.

Fluid friction in the form of adhesion and surface tension play a roll, but pressure leading to Fluid-motion is secondary other than that provided by Cf. Due to the configuration of my design, I do not expect a very high rotation rate (RPM) so Cf will be minimal. I only hope to gain enough to keep the fluid actuated by the turbine impellers to keep it symmetrical against the outer rim of the accumulator.

Molecular mass, unlike weights and levers can be of any size and yet fill a void where where CF will inhibit solid weights.

I appreciate the indulgence and wishes from Bill. The personal counter-action taken by Jim, I can live without.

I only re-opened this thread in recognition of Fletcher and the fact that I left it hanging since November of 2014. I also thought that it was time I let members know that I am still active here and that it was time to contribute something of interest.

Most who indulge know that I no longer pursue Bessler's red hearings and have put my faith in the eye-witnesses stating that PM is possible!

refinement and a pause is advisable; this pause can be used to write things up and think about consequences (which one consciously or unconsciously collected anyway while conceiving that thing).

I have taken many pauses and considered the consequences, I have concluded that getting a patent will be as stringent as the build. As previously stated: I have found what I believe is the answer where others has looked. There are many patents in the engineering field as well as aviation and combustion engines that are based on my design. I must be prudent and careful to know which ones have expired and those that are still active.

Ralph

[Fletcher]

Hey Ralph .. get something that 'works' first before thinking about the rest ;7)

[rlortie]

Jim_Mich,

Remember! this is Fletcher's thread, please keep your personal attacks limited to your own thread. I will post on yours only when I feel I have something useful to say, such as answering Fletcher's interest about history of thermometers and barometers.

If you have something to add related to this topic, feel free to post your ideas, otherwise please adhere to parliamentary procedure as I will your thread.

Ralph

[jim_mich]

Jim_Mich,

Remember! this is Fletcher's thread, please keep your personal attacks limited to your own thread. I will post on yours only when I feel I have something useful to say, such as answering Fletcher's interest about history of thermometers and barometers.

If you have something to add related to this topic, feel free to post your ideas, otherwise please adhere to parliamentary procedure as I will your thread.

Ralph

You, Ralph, mentioned my name by mentioning Jim's plan. Then Bill pitched out his lie about me and my plan.

So, once again I'm lied about, then you bitch at me and tell me to shut up and stay in my own thread?

Thank a lot Ralph.
Maybe you should bitch at Bill for his lying about me and my plan?
Maybe you should not make comments about my plan?

There's a big double-standard here on the forum, which needs to be cleaned up.

[Stewart]

So, once again I'm lied about, then you bitch at me and tell me to shut up and stay in my own thread?

Thank a lot Ralph.
Maybe you should bitch at Bill for his lying about me and my plan?
Maybe you should not make comments about my plan?

There's a big double-standard here on the forum, which needs to be cleaned up.

This is just getting ridiculous! Jim - in 2011 in this post you said:

My 'PLAN'... I posted this a while back. The first item on my list is "First get something that works!" This means a working wheel, not just a concept or idea.

"This means a working wheel, not just a concept or idea."

You even linked to the following page, so there can be no doubt as to what you meant:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index. ... king_wheel

Here's what it says there:
"Working wheel
A working wheel would be a perpetual motion wheel that once set in motion continues to rotate while outputting usable rotational torque until physically stopped or the components wear out.
A perpetual motion wheel that is only a concept on paper or in a computer simulation is not a working wheel."

You said:

"The first item on my list is "First get something that works!""

You clearly state that this is the first item and it needs to be done first. Also if your list wasn't in any order then why the a, b, c etc. An un-ordered list would just have bullet points.

As other long serving members of this forum have said, when you first posted your "The Plan", we all understood it and could go along with it, and we certainly all agreed with "first get something that works".

I think you need to explain to us why you have gone back on your "The Plan", and also why you expect us to continue to respect you or listen to anything you have to say when you now go against a corner-stone of this forum's long-held values (values you also once held).

Stewart

EDIT:
Oh the irony! It turns out it was Jim that created that wiki page about a working wheel...

http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index. ... on=history

[Fletcher]

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 475#110475