IQ needed for solving Besslers challenge?

[MrVibrating]

@James - please, my living room is a graveyard of old experiments, most proving that IQ is simply inversely propotional to sobriety, although it's evidently too early in the evening for me to get the "Dextral" reference (N&N = names and numbers? Still, 'woosh'). But if the Lord giveth with the Dextral hand he taketh away with the Sinistral and outside a brief window between ~ 10pm to 2am i'd probably pass as clinically flatlined, mostly getting by with a small repertoire of grunts.

Cheers for the Sidis link tho. Bookmarked on me phone to read at work. I've always had an interest in negentropic thermodynamics wrt life as much as general physics, and especially in the field of cognitive science. I expect that OU gradients are entropic but it's academic at this stage..


As for the thread topic, an Asperger's checklist score is probably more telling than IQ..

[Furcurequs]

(N&N = names and numbers? Still, 'woosh')

Think of Santa Clause coming to town and the reason for the piece of coal in your stocking.

...lol

[daxwc]

To: Oystein and Fletcher.
I always wondered if the reference isn't towards a code. Seems unlikely... yet.


JC:

It reads as follows: - ?whereas the Noble, highly esteemed and scholarly Commercial Counsellor and Mathematician, Dr. Orffyré, who has for some time sought a companion with experience in mathematical handicrafts who could assist him in the implementation of his important and far-reaching undertaking and to whom he could entrust all secret inventions in case of his death, has now found such a person in the loyal, honest and honoured Johann Adam Crone, a citizen of this town, who has hitherto earned a living in the profession of blacksmith ad interim, but who has proven his mastery in the creation of the great and rare astronomical quadrant at the famous observatory of Kassel and other famous works, so that he has chosen to give him his maiden daughter, Catherine Elisabeth, who has been brought up in the manner and with the skills befitting a woman, as his subjectum, to enter into holy matrimony in the name of God; the Christian community is therefore asked to bless the union. It is hoped that no member of the public who is motivated by the love of God and stands in His service might have any other thoughts.?

[Oystein]

I think this marriage was rather late in Bessler life?

Thus to late to influence the code in AP, but might affect some of the later pages in MT...

I found that it is more likely that his codes was thought by the rabbi or was it a Jesuit priest?' (as I write, I can`t remember), thus before he invented his wheel.

He was thought "the language of Nature", and I think that was pretty much the same as Galileos "language of the Universe".

[Fletcher]

The language of the Universe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Assayer

Philosophy [i.e. physics] is written in this grand book — I mean the universe — which stands continually open to our gaze, but it cannot be understood unless one first learns to comprehend the language and interpret the characters in which it is written. It is written in the language of mathematics, and its characters are triangles, circles, and other geometrical figures, without which it is humanly impossible to understand a single word of it; without these, one is wandering around in a dark labyrinth.

I also find it interesting that the 'mathematician' Orffyre wanted a companion with experience in mathematical handicrafts and that Crone had built an astronomical quadrant as we see in the DT portraits.

[daxwc]

Oystein:

Thus to late to influence the code in AP, but might affect some of the later pages in MT...

Yes, exactly what I mean. I haven't done any work on AP other than X's mostly because I doubt the answer is there. That said I have no doubt there is coded communication in AP.


Fletcher, the strange thing to me is that in DT Bessler says the math for the wheel's power is simple. So why does he need someone with experience in mathematical handicrafts?





/5

[daxwc]

Oystein:

I found that it is more likely that his codes was thought by the rabbi or was it a Jesuit priest?' (as I write, I can`t remember), thus before he invented his wheel.

I am sure he did, but is my opinion and speculation he has made his own various codes in MT. If I was smarter I would get somewhere faster, so I guess you know how I voted.

[daxwc]

JC's quote:

…Dr. Orffyré, who has for some time sought a companion with experience in mathematical handicrafts who could assist him in the implementation of his important and far-reaching undertaking and to whom he could entrust all secret inventions in case of his death, has now found such a person…

Speculation; Bessler has hidden the secret to wheel in coded pictures and he needed a mathematician that can decode it so he can entrust all secret inventions in case of his death.

[Zhyyra]

Thanks for that Fletch, I didn't know that Galileo wrote that. It rings so true.

God is indeed the Author of the universe, and when he reveals something to us it is possible for us to convey it to others. If however you seek something new and unknown to others, you need to go to the Author. The depth of the grand book is infinite and you'll be amazed at where God can take you. It is also very wide and you'd be surprised at what you might find in the shallow.

There is no such thing as intellectual property, it all stems from God.
And before the claimers start to lambast me, by that I do not imply that I have any disrespect for man-made law.

Zy

[daxwc]

Fletcher:

It is written in the language of mathematics, and its characters are triangles, circles, and other geometrical figures,

I believe it is important to remind everybody that algebra got started in geometry first and would have been triangles, circles and other figures.

Bessler AP:

All knowledge was of use to me. I particularly liked Algebra. AP pg 262 digital

[Fletcher]

Personally, I agree dax. Two scenarios. Why would he want a companion skilled in mathematical crafts (Crone) unless he wanted this man to study his drawings and decipher for himself a geometric code for example, that would lead to a mechanism for posterity? This person could receive no help from Bessler but the successful process would validate Bessler's hidden but available knowledge into the future.

Alternatively, this person could suggest 'better ways' to hide the information in geometry that only those skilled in mathematical crafts could decipher relatively easily i.e. a more 'professional or superior' way to do it.

As for codes. I agree with Oystein that it is likely that Bessler would start off with the 'known' and as he became more adept at it increase the complexity and detail. This would naturally tempt him to go a step further and invent his own related code form that a studious reader might conjure from his works with further contemplation.

I also make the point again that the toy page ( A; B; C; D; E; 5 ) does seem to fit a simple substitution code (like his name change) but this doesn't preclude much more advanced codes as well within the different drawings which I'm sure Oystein has found.

[daxwc]

From my understanding of the story Bessler has made Johann Adam Crone’s 15 year old daughter pregnant out of wedlock, which would be quite a commotion in that era for a small town. So does Bessler offer to tell him the secret straight out to settle things down and offer to marry her? Or does he kill three birds with one stone by complementing Mr Crone on his mathematical skills telling him he needs to learn or prove his worth by cracking a code, also the secret of perpetual motion will survive his death and lastly offering to marry his daughter? I think it is most plausible.

I also think Mr Crone probably never figured it out and Bessler would have never have let the secret go it was just a situation Bessler was forced in to.


PS. One has to remember small towns would not have that many educated people in it that were even literate never mind would know math conceptional problems for a code and a man he could trust.

[Fletcher]

Hi dax .. your last sentence had me thinking about how many genius's there might be in a town.

From what I've read on the subject it is not a highly heritable trait and also not much due to environment either.

Just for interest I include some interesting reading on the subject.

http://cogprints.org/611/1/genius.html

Some societies, including widely known societies such as Mensa, accept the results of standardized tests taken elsewhere. Those are listed below by selectivity percentile (assuming the now-standard definition of IQ as a standard score with a median of 100 and a standard deviation of 15 IQ points).

Top 2 percent of population (98th percentile; 1 person out of 50; approximately IQ 130): Mensa International – as of January 2014, ~110,000 members from ~100 countries; annual dues for American Mensa are $70 (dues differ by country).

Top 1 percent (99th percentile; 1 out of 100; approximately IQ 135): Intertel – as of January 2014, 1,300-1,400 members; annual dues are $39.

Top 0.1 percent (99.9th percentile; 1 out of 1,000; approximately IQ 146): Triple Nine Society – as of July 2015, 1,600-1,650 members from 47 countries; annual dues are $10. International Society for Philosophical Enquiry – as of December 2014, 410 members; annual dues are $50 ($37.50 for over-65).

Top 0.003 percent (99.997th percentile; 1 out of 30,000; approximately IQ 160): Prometheus Society – as of January 2014, ~120 members; annual dues are $50.

Top 0.0001 percent (not reliable with current tests): Mega Society – as of January 2014, 26 members

(mine: that's 1 in a 100,000)

[WaltzCee]

opps! I just had to delete that.

X squeeze me!

[daxwc]

Let me explain myself better WaltzCee . I don't think you have to be a genius to stumble upon a working wheel. But you may have to be a genius to figure out his coded secrets.